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Transitioning from legacy mobility to future mobility, technology options and choices
Christoph Ellert, Professor HES SO Valais Wallis and Jakob Rager, Director of the Centre for Energy Research for Municipalities (CREM)
Thursday, Dec. 5, 2019 · 11:35 a.m. · 26m 18s
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the second part of all morning
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many thanks for this invitation and the chance uh to tell you about a mobility
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we have become much more technical these days uh
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ah here we can see the mobility by the uh cable
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after carlos planes bolts mobility is a very
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gentle with uh the uh which covers many things
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that's why we have to limit ourselves on the fuel a particular items and that's when you consider
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competition between days another uh aspect many things up in the papers
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all talking about mobility immobility morbidity many many things uh
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this is a topic we could talk about four hours that's the reason why
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uh this is a very uh current a topic
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especially with the links between sustainability energy i would like
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two
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focus especially on a everything to do with the the road individual mobility
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of cools will concentrate on the electric uh ah how many we have
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on many they're all and also we would have to ask us that's how do we uh charge
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how which are g. two when we recharge it and what all the other uh solutions that are
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we will have for example with the h. two when the role that disturb individual
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would like to show why your logic is would appear on the scene and also
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how we cannot of all the the the matter related to the
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i i. energy infrastructure a lot of that topic over the energy aspect
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here we have some uh statistics uh that come from the
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posted at the energy in a switcher land uh uh does well out here
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uh shows that uh energy has to come from somewhere
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and this day a discount especially from a organ petrol or
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and and and this we have apart from ability here in the statistics for doesn't eighteen
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you can see here the evolution uh and over the last a few years and the trend
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let's see uh as uh there is some information buttons fall a mobility
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this is a quasi descent but uh it we call covers roughly one set
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of uh the the g. energy and uh we could underlies this uh further
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all of this uh mobility pile out are in switzerland uh we have
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you know a on the role of the the part uh on the road
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some of it uh on the c. some of it on the train lines and that is why
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it's of you're a d. so from now on
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no weeds also talking about electrical something on because
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this is an important topic where do we want to uh to get
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to and you know that uh from monday overdose it is we have been
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a meeting intimate made in order to talk about what could we do we seal too
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uh in uh the feature yeah as mobility is uh where we wanted to go
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for first uh whoa what a concert choose mobility with a somewhat efforts and the
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conception by car as a dropped and lawton dropped all unfortunately the number of causes a
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reason which is where the moment that we have not gained much is it going in the wrong a way and uh
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what uh we gain by efficiency here we have realised i know total numbers
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so we have to do something about this
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the efficiency gain a ease uh it or not but i do rise in the mobility overall
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uh there is a one will sing to look at which is that a
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lot resupply a great role uh in terms of the contribution to a traffic
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now let's look at the fact that in switzerland were like uh to uh oh
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what kind of transport would like to have in switzerland uh we have some statistical data
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and at the moment we have around ten thousand electric vehicles uh if they were putting together
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and once again uh charges through a charge an
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pointer sockets uh they have been sold a diesel
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about ten thousand it with records that was sold out of three
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hundred thousand vehicles and twenty eighteen uh which represents around three percent
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of the total uh the number of cars in switzerland this is the situation as of today and uh
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now how can we uh charge t. c. who want to
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charges who's a little part conception roll up our this is the
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the question of the duration of stay how long will i keep
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my car on the a cop out because it's completely different from
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the uh charging a recharging that's always a few very core so how many probably chartered weapons was not we have
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two thousand five hundred probably charges in switzerland a public event about and we have to uh see what kind of uh
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however looking that uh most of the charging stations
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are quite impressive we can look at that in details
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where do we find them and uh uh in terms of a high powered charging up once
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we have sweets was a land uh we have uh how we have a us um uh
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d. c. uh charging station off around the three hundred uh uh
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charging stations of that's a size at about seventy people what's a that
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is a religious today but that we have to find the right cable or
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where there were out whole mall uh at a a place of work and uh
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all i've done is to be look it to and yet if we look at
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it into wait a always a greater consumption for example to heed the car with uh
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it's a free for a classic kind of car but yet but take this
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into account foreigner prick of a call and yet we have to ask ourselves about
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the origin of electric energy in switzerland comes from my usual when you create a this is
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the situation today which is that's i'm interested that does not they meet a c. o. two
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that's an element uh that we need to reflect on a we have
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a sweet as an uh stations uh today it to a charter car
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and uh we're going out to a thousand five hundred to three thousand and
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we feel that we almost ever get what to think about the charging time
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if the infrastructure in place at the moment is that's sufficient what would i do
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so now we have to ask ourselves these two particular questions where does electricity come from
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it must come from somewhere and uh ideally it would come from solar and the wind
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power and in germany internal also we have some uh when a power turbines that uh
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or in operation and uh we also have some okay boards in order to
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draw that energy and the city energy circuit about what's that takes place in a
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if it's around here we have a a petrol and or uh which is
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part of the transport energy makes and would like to change uh this uh
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abortion and we have seen that diagram already and we have the electricity here
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the represented a by sixty percent of what what it was itchy and set a five
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percent for nuclear uh what we want in the future as you know would like to
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have a change of energy system up until two thousand and fifty
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and for that i would have to be price that part yeah so
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yeah for would have to fit the nuclear if uh we have to
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feed that we have something to do already but this part yeah i i
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this says as for the infrastructure intuition of a primary
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energy just second question is at what time when would
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i charge which some of the days by start charging let's see machine that we have four point six median
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of if it causes was attending twenty fifty let's imagine doesn't twenty fifty all castle electric what we do
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let's assume that uh during the day and would not say that everybody charged a car descent time but
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that's just a assume that ten percent of cost jobs at the same time as i stated earlier on
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most of the charge and phone sorta round is seven q. the white and even
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to get a lot but let's plan seventy to what as when twenty fifty now
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you know scenarios so we preach austin percent or other send a movie lover
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uh an instant power of a roughly i it's a times leds that that's not negligible if we do decide
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no had because love it more relaxed a with sleeping and the car is being jobs
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uh well worse tapes with assault charges three point five could what's uh and therefore if
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we just look at ten percent of jobs uh uh at the same time looking at
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one point five laps tight but much that uh by twenty fifty is probably of uh
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even wouldn't there be no two weeks even if it's a five times a smaller
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as for the cost uh though all those stationary for ninety percent of the then i would like to look at this
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a further into tears what happens when that um we charge at walmart work
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we which are twenty never is necessary we're asking ourselves what's powwow
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uh would be required for charging we're talking a lot about would be charging fast charging one hundred uh
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what one hundred twenty you know what one hundred fifty or what it's a small detail doesn't change much
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we have uh the i. s. s. yeah i'm from
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switzerland and uh mister shaw chicago that analysis uh oh
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at what time will most cost the charger here doing
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today into cars all uh being driven uh doing today
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the charge them charge him roughly at four p. m. eight p. m.
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this is the one which are the cosmos it doesn't change much uh between uh the week
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and uh do week uh and uh when we drive around to do and see friends and family
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now we have roughly the same same if we compare this with a solar power
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you know june no it's a pretty good in december uh the sun is not so
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a stronger and it's not as good so whether difficulty when do
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we have green energy at our disposal and when do we want to
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john of the cross so we have to think about how
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can we stock energy what not the chart what should we
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do a cruel so program all computer ourselves okay charge your
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car what you're driving by this is a matter of uh
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you are as numerous a shade and visualisation another specialist in that topic and uh experts in that area
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can a tackle that problem now if i was to give you another
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example if everybody watches their car into some out once again within twenty fifty
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defeating station id i weigh in germany for example twenty costed out
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at the same time in twenty minutes to charge the car too
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continued a holiday tree uh there will go to the charging point that that don't want to charge
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a hundred percent just eighty percent because was twenty percent tax
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a lot more time so if you want to charge edge percent
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fate in twenty minutes uh we need a facelift you could uh
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what uh which is okay for a two hundred kilometres distance lawfully
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uh so depending on the car of course i'm your nominee using a a nice car but as a
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as a model for this analysis if we use a more modest car we could divide the number by two
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so three make a quieter must be available full only twenty cost
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but when holiday so there are many cars behind me curing yep
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then uh stations remake yeah what must be available uh wait sure
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corresponds so to roughly an average industry complex and uh
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we would need to transform a two intermediate voltage transmission great
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uh these days and i've only taken of example was ten cars uh but that's in twenty minutes slot
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and now we have to convince somebody who would install that a system for the
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power electric this energy distribution on the model way according to the needs but we didn't
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twenty fifty and i hope that by dan all these problems would be
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solved and uh we need to address the question of how would we
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managed infrastructure one set of infrastructure and that's what i am
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at the moment and uh because of the time that resulted
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uh i will go beat faster and i will shorten my presentation uh just to think
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how can they infrastructure be allocated a distaste better sessions one of
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that to start with start ways people aware looking for that missus bands
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oh troll of in eighteen eighty six that she was uh going to get a few that the pharmacies
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and everybody was doing uh in that manner for about twenty years and the discharging stations this few stations
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arrived three years later and the first one meeting you will be cool but
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a field other colour sets what about twenty years later
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i took some time and who pays for the infrastructure three
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does and three hundred sixty seven feeding stations um a
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few stations in switzerland this was paid for by date
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industry uh because there where enough people uh who wanted to have a
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nice car driving around and let's not forget that a electric cars tech
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ten times longer or fifty times longer to jobs and therefore we need
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ten times as many uh stations so in twenty fifties would not be enough um so who would pay for this
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this is the main question and you for once again or short on my presentation uh and uh we we have
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enough gas to do that uh with industry to so and to really shorten my presentation
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i would submit that by saying that i think that would not be able to leave without a nice attentions not to help
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for the infrastructure to be available for cars in order to solve that problem
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which is a chicken and egg a situation as such if i can say so
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now what we've disclosed if we look at all uses of
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ancient abide by ourselves uh in the and uh we have to
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ask ourselves so we investing going a rightist um electric system all
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another ceased um who we want to have uh some actually power electricity we just
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i need to ask ourselves all too shall we uh choose electricity or hydrogen i'm really
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gives us aside at the moment imagining that within twenty fifty and what are the differences between
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due to uh uh modes there is to show i actually option
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uh as a we're talking about tess like for example are these days
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there is also the possible hydrogen option with a very uh much a short um a charge in time and uh
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uh in principle we could do so all we have to add on to shape could be stopped uh uh with uh
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that mentioned up like oh we just go for some years into the future
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this would be a easier but once again uh this is in the room sofa sensation at the moment
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in the sense that uh it exists in laboratories in on a bigger size but once again
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uh this is much more closely at the moment so at the moment or as you have notice
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we're not talking about mobility them all with talking about infrastructure uh energy infrastructure so in order to
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make a distinction between it was a. t. and i don't yeah there is a small diagram here
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that i've copied by g. uh energy of this in the united states or we have the energy density
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compared to between a a chisel gasoline hydrogen a mess and
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and uh we have the density per volume and the number of units uh how can
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we c. d.'s on the right in terms of hydrogen and as much density per kilogram or
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ah ha love uh uh in this uh diagram are we i still need to have a contain a
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for the energy and if you put hydrogen here the number
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drops from one twenty hundred twenty to one or two so
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what's important to know is where all the batteries to listen batteries
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all lawfully on the right hand side yeah oh at zero point one zero point two
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in terms of volume in terms of density per kilogram the batteries are here and uh
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this is something to keep in mind if we now i look at to to uh
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different cars uh uh we can uh see that we
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could live stock uh i do general sixty we is uh
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town car to not product you meet up okay program as you can see here and uh are there you
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can also see dietrich the battery in the corner but yet the car is ten times then sat down uh
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for native trees itchy uh uh if we can uh what does that say involve for filling station
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one thing we cannot say here is the time scale because of the intensity of the and the density of the hydrogen
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we have a a factor for most two one two fifty i know of that to a
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charge on hydrogen a car compared to nitpick coffee
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chances and therefore will be any infrastructure oh so
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i think that this or will be all clear for us will send me an sometime in my presentation
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and now we're asking ourselves the question no she's not a
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hydrogen seems absolutely beautiful but yet if we're looking at a
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energy efficiency uh in terms of uh energy infrastructure hydrogen is not so great
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okay mm who forward
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compared to to uh the classic um internal combustion and
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a petrol a hybrid car t. v. footage weaker to slow
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oh hydrogen car does all the four men candidates
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for comparison so if we are looking at uh improving
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the efficiency we can uh look at i really don't know i'm not talking about this anymore but in order
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to completely eliminate a c. o. two hardwood will not
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work so therefore we just are these two candidates left
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which is a hydrogen car with the hydrogen tank or a
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convertible which uh which charges or a battery the batteries here
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and this is a battery that gets the engine to work so hard to gen klaus similar to an electric out of stuff
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from the fact that stops hydrogen different manner and just to
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be converted again and that is where we're where we're losing efficiency
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in order to convert hydrogen to electricity via their conversion we lose fifty percent and we can then
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keep in mind that this would not change much in the next few years this is the uh current situations so
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here if i was to quickly compared to the efficiency break between first of all take energy
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and also convert so
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he said cause uh just exeter approaching fifty percent of uh
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the car driving fifty percent of their peak hour and uh
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yeah project car wasn't around twenty three percent because you have to convert to hydrogen and we convert
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so this seems a a bad and we're can improve these
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uh and we also have to sort of the stock stocking
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problem stock ooh we can
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already stock a pretty whereas so
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we will not change much uh diseases around twenty five percent or
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before we look at the interest to stock h. and low cost okay should
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we can to was factor sixties of six history was a factor of two
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in terms of efficiency i'm not talking about the battery you can't be days the battery needs to be treated well
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so to sum up
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we have a great part uh to to to uh do ways in
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terms of ability had now otherwise it would not to get sorted or
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uh so to production uh it's possible but not was i put cards that we find market the moment we need to find
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we are hybrid cars i would too badly reliably car my car was twenty years
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old but i would do not find a real agreed cart worse its name as such
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and the not a ought to really eliminate a suit to
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we need to even avoid hybrid and we have to go
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for electrical i trudge an uh an uh mobility
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and makes sense only if directory city uh production
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is a renewable in norway yes in switzerland yeah as in
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denmark yes in germany in china i don't have the diagrams here
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i wish we were to look at that that's not the case at the moment to where it is it is a dirty these days but
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here in switzerland all of a sudden but talking about the fact that
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electricity is becoming don't you see so the infrastructure is a key element
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uh in order to get to grey mobility and in order to obtain this
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we need to uh massively raised just solar energy and a wooden chair was talking
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oh we says some people in switzerland in band and the estimate so that uh in order to replace nuclear will
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we need to have at least certain times more than today and if we were to go to agree mobility we knew too
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i'll go to fifty a fact times factor but that's
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not a problem as such a but maybe it's a
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case question of willpower and we have not yet even
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addressed a particular difficulty to seem so negative that uh
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how could i finish with something positive i've been very green for the last thirty uh send i would like
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to mention that for small distances it because already glued
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but finding the next week i'll for small distance it's uh
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well it's impossible for the next five years so let's uh go
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that way i just been covered twenty percent of energy for transport
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for small distances eighty percent of energy and i have not shown the numbers on screen
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that eighty percent of energy in transport according
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to with long distances and for long distances here
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this is where we have a problem with electric cars and it's quite easy for the next five to ten years for it to cast
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for short distances for long distances over the next ten years or more hydrogen cost
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so what would we do ninety six and uh we need to find the
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car park in the city centre downtown where people who
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commute to go to a doctor want to park their car
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we is that many charging points not by to the dawson's but by the hundreds in order to
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cover and opened the park cover the car parks who uses solar panels are
00:23:06
for example given yeah this is the case when you come back to that
00:23:09
oh when you have that could at four so i have all gone over
00:23:13
my look at a time by three minutes and i would add another element to that uh many times
00:23:20
are just wanted to and uh and i want to thank restart but i just want to what two
00:23:26
or three a smaller amounts to say that uh once we have real today's recommendations how could we uh quickly
00:23:33
um look at that impact is what is important of course is the particular object either
00:23:38
for example if the carbon uh neutrality he's those set up then we could
00:23:44
go to to the configuration state should state in order to uh implement this uh
00:23:49
covered shoulder covered a card box in order to then
00:23:52
go to us the uh the dingo and it's very important
00:23:57
to follow uh the recesses it is production and in that case uh
00:24:01
do people use to offer that was a great in that manner random
00:24:06
often a ad at a stage or this uh stages a forgotten because uh then uh
00:24:13
we'll look at whether we're going a forward with your of uh all was that not
00:24:20
uh did not find any uh demand then their fault did we
00:24:25
for a shot and uh in that sense i want to uh
00:24:28
mentioned that said technological evolution as well describe a priest of uh
00:24:32
now get an objective oftentimes we almost manage not quite but there's also
00:24:37
the gap between uh the technological evolution and what's in
00:24:41
reality as was stated this morning about you miss tamara
00:24:46
is that if i want to change a word as it is at the moment how can i create this vision
00:24:52
that's people start so call or that object chief darts or a one pushes people to want
00:24:59
to charge on the question is how can people buying in to to change in order to
00:25:05
identify the man not to participate and to be
00:25:08
a stack all those in that particular a situation that
00:25:11
i want to say that that i think that's in order to guarantee the set information we need to ask
00:25:17
to add this it's additional uh axes we some parts eventually uh
00:25:23
a step so which uh sometimes can limit the time in terms of regulation so arena
00:25:29
uh terms of a people's vote if it's a implemented well so i think that is where
00:25:34
the few elements that i wanted to add the on top of the technological side or to say
00:25:39
that uh we need to reflect on these two axes in order to uh get to uh no objective
00:25:46
and to move forward with energy transition on a more global manner and uh
00:25:51
more specifically uh by integrating a mobility in the energy of planning
00:25:56
that is that being carried out and on the days uh with a
00:26:00
stop uh taking your time and uh you're free to ask any questions
00:26:07
oh
Conference Program
Address from the Commune de Bagnes
Eloi Rossier, President of the Commune de Bagnes
Dec. 5, 2019 · 9:11 a.m.
198 views
Introduction to the Forum
Isabelle Schirmer, VMIF Founder
Dec. 5, 2019 · 9:19 a.m.
Political economy of transport in switzerland. Who governs, who decides and who provides funding?
Bernard Wuthrich, Political Journalist, Le Temps
Dec. 5, 2019 · 9:26 a.m.
Be bold! Rethinking mobility for future generations
Marcel Maurer, President of TeleSion, Board Member of FMV, former President of the city of Sion
Dec. 5, 2019 · 9:48 a.m.
Questions & Answers
Panel
Dec. 5, 2019 · 10:08 a.m.
Integrating mobility planning and land planning in the alps, application to telecabine connections between mountains and valleys
Romain Fournier, Mobility Specialist, Antenne Région Valais romand
Dec. 5, 2019 · 10:17 a.m.
Telecabine Connections : Vision from the Canton du Valais and Planning Considerations
Gilles Délèze, Telecabine Connections Expert, Mobility Service, Canton of Valais
Dec. 5, 2019 · 10:20 a.m.
Télé Marécottes Project and challenges for local communes
Florian Piasenta, President of the Commune of Salvan
Dec. 5, 2019 · 10:30 a.m.
Commune de Bagnes Project - Possible inclusion of the Telecabine Le Châble Verbier in the Regional Travel Transport System
Guillaume Page, Planner, Commune de Bagnes
Dec. 5, 2019 · 10:41 a.m.
Questions & Answers
Panel
Dec. 5, 2019 · 10:54 a.m.
Transitioning from legacy mobility to future mobility, technology options and choices
Christoph Ellert, Professor HES SO Valais Wallis and Jakob Rager, Director of the Centre for Energy Research for Municipalities (CREM)
Dec. 5, 2019 · 11:35 a.m.
Project OFT mobility lab – Decision support tool for planning mobility networks in an energy context First results – Measuring and Visualising Mobility flows in the City of Sion
Léonard Evequoz, Coordinator Agglo Valais Central
Dec. 5, 2019 · 12:02 p.m.
Questions & Answers
Panel
Dec. 5, 2019 · 12:17 p.m.
Foster sustainable innovation in mountainous areas through the project 'PARCOURS I-tinérants in the Mont Blanc region
Diane von Gunten & Ismael Grosjean
Dec. 5, 2019 · 12:23 p.m.
Examples of local charging infrastructure for e-mobility
Blaise Lovisa, Commercial Director and Energy Products Manager, ALTIS Group SA
Dec. 5, 2019 · 1:59 p.m.
Where are mobility investments going?
Thibaut Mueller, Associate Partner, McKinsey Geneva office and member of the McKinsey Centre for Future Mobility
Dec. 5, 2019 · 2:22 p.m.
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