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ask a few members uh to to join the pen no uh i think uh yeah mario jason
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ah the idea that
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he reverts will be on it
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ross well you ross i haven't seen yeah
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oh just
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the fun
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yeah
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yeah
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right
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yeah
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yeah
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yeah
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yeah
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yeah
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huh
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oh
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ask uh yeah
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oh
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yeah
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can let the people mess with him 'cause nobody really cool uh buttons
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yeah
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yeah but
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uh_huh
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yeah
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uh_huh
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yeah
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uh_huh
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we could um so well we we get a window is a
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little bit here um as we mentioned we we wanted to
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to continue the discussion and um maybe what we can do uh as we get a little bit organise with what
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i wanna put up here um since we didn't have the
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discussion after the last session on training injury prevent
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load maybe there's any question you williams why don't we do that just produces couple of minutes
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oh
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so um i had um the question fall put wavered
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um you you you you programs the um did you use a
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now for the program to warm up program mine though
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okay and the 'cause we'd seen and and that's also from are you because the eleven th program
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ah are feel base with videos the true exercises so can you to maybe comment a little bit on what
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uh not based program can bring then was the difference with the
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program that's based on the field of playing with my well
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before my on system for eleven plus what what we found we
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used to do this on on on paper programs so i'll
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i remembered two thousand four when i did my own p. h. d.
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we even had v. h. s. uh access would be exercise program
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no one be the exercises right because you watch that at home but
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you need to have the exercising your pocket money on the page
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so we decided to make clear examples on the paper she remembered plastic plastic around it
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so you can drop a new sports bags we have it handy all times
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but this time progresses everybody next to the beach nowadays stands within fall
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a special grassroots level easy d.'s divider still need to be a reachable by mao
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so they have the phones in the pockets while the stand next to the beach and guide guide the
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uh uh the kids and it's really easy to open yeah yeah have the exercises all there
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um and and you just have them handy andy guide you through it um and it it really helps and i
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think it increased compliance an adherence to uh to the exercises
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i don't know how how minor feels about that
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yeah so actually the um for the studies the they
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use the menu also written manuals figure send a
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a couple of us more posters and they had a lot of a similar than in other
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studies send a implementations also we'd eat on on coaching still doing
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a lot of workshops actually so work on the field then
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these videos or when the presentation does is more an initiative that came later
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from um um soccer association of new zealand incorporation
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realise there are nationally an insurance company
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and they have developed a web sites and the other um
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social me just application and so force sold to facilitate that to spend all does that come from
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well
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more cool oh less creepy to to go because i need to go over there are lines um
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what we see no in the last two days is that uh there
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is some information about sports but it's definitely a law of
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multi disciplinary interdisciplinary work to actually perform preface a little bit better
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and we've seen knowledge coming from from the from expertise
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what do you think is the biggest barrier at the moment for the implementation of the knowledge we currently have
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um but anybody can stuff we can go in order from there or anybody wants to
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stuff last uh let's say let's start with you what he thinks about it
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what was the question is will we have knowledge it's it's sitting somewhere
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is generated somewhere but things don't seem to change so will
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why why things are not change what we need to do to my uh i
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think the um i think one of the biggest problems is that the
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the theoretical knowledge that is delivered encrypted only academic in the spectrum
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often doesn't meet in saint as of the end user
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and so we we can come up with solutions to it
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we we can come up with solutions all we want some recommend see what best factors would be
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but if the if the person is ultimately task was delivering mass and so for instance
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that's the crux of a high school team at the age of fourteen years organisers
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if his responsibility is to when max's and to do well right then
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and if he's given no other reason for his it is given out that this and why wouldn't this
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and so i think i think systems if you're gonna design a system you have to change the incentive
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balance in such a way that you actually drive the idea back reading some future best incense
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so it's it's me that's the main one and then the second the second issue
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is is a policy issue an four years ago i think it was
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right before cool union in in england had or or to dress a personality to this yesterday
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where they brought together a bunch of experts from around the world in different fields on new sports and talent
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and then they wanted to come up with a consensus documents and how to manage tennis and
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what they ended up doing is a consequence of that meeting is entirely restructured how they select
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the best implies that they princes the main changes that that belied the selection until sixteen
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and the reason no able to do that is because they had policy buy
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in from across the board that they recognise to all the stakeholders where
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uh and that meant tribesmen schools it meant players i mean parents and they managed to get a process in place
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that's but to always check all the sometimes the internet that isn't done enough so that
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i think the biggest kinds would be made by about working on who are the stakeholders that you need to
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work with him disgusted bothersome as to the committee because i know you want to do this regularly
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'cause you have a state cause it's the department of education is your apartments and houses
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sort apartments of sports i don't how politically switzerland distracted psychologist from presuming too much
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and and then work with them and what policy needs to be greater than actually make good policy
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because if you just leave it for people to do what is prudent for
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them when you get the system where everyone pulls in opposite directions
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in in order to get people in the same direction you have to get every single person calling the same right in the same direction
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it was very good any common from uh from jason and and what is well with it
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well it's not also go oh well okay honestly i would
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challenge that this is a big right or okay good
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ah reason i challenge at its right from the get go the
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state that we will give you our best cracks is
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infers form of arrogance i know what's best for you why wouldn't you involving and user right
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off the bat in every single thing you design but but i didn't say you should
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yeah but to the that's key that's how do you really
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should working with people from but different display different specialities
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you you respect them you are you can pathetically understand
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what they need and then you design around it
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yeah of course but i mean that's that's that's what it has to be dialogue
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so that's why you have to start quickness with the stakeholders are and if you don't recognise
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with and i end user is then then how can you you then it's a monologue
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so i'm actually advocating for dialogue some not say what you're challenging well you don't know who the end users
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is the end user the people that use your information the information you create it
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so those are the people you include when you're designing programs yeah exactly
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that's why like i suspect there are a few him had parents you had crutches
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you had tried to attack formants managers and you had academics and medical doctors
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or working together to clear consensus that it's it was it was driven so that in that sense it's not
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people talk about top down and bottom up that's not driven in any direction is driven by a collection of people
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ultimately can speak to exactly what's what's required but the question is how
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those people use the information war how do they use it
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that's that's the question it's information but how is it used
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how i i don't understand exactly what you're asking us um okay
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no i have to explain all yours
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uh i think i understand what corning saying
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i understand definitely also what processing um
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this is something where gordon and i agree i would say is what we're
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trying to do with all the knowledge we have we try to
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to take that knowledge we created in a controlled environment based on our
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assumptions of a problem one on one into a different context
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and these athletes they participate not in a laboratory and then we
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expect them to do exactly what we did in the
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laboratory and then we expect the same fifty percent reduction in injuries because they need to do what we cooked up
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and i have so many times at conferences like this that i've been challenged and uh people say we have all
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these beautiful programs but no one's using well if no one's using um these programs are not so beautiful
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yes in a controlled environment table reducing injuries but that's completely different context in which they need to be used so
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the implementation from we have right now is we have control type uh
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evidence and i think this is where where where you were going
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and then we try to implement that can change behaviour of of the users
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but why don't we take to use is already up front in
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developing programs we we describe the problem we describe etiology
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in context and then develop programs around that in context and then evaluate those
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in context and this is where we're going wrong because we have this beautiful paper
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it shows fifty percent reductions and now the user is stupid to not use that that's that's how we approach it
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and and that's why we have a lot of lot of again to get outside you know
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yeah i mean you don't have to you don't have to convince me of importance of end user and of the um
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and of the fact that academics regularly ever values itself as the provide information
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i absolutely agree with it but if if i may yet we we
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we doing a p. h. d. is a p. h. d. now she's doing completely qualitative study i mean jeez endangered
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and so instead of us telling them this is an injury we asked him how do you define an injury
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and if you look really simply add overuse injuries and you are asking and please how do you think an
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overuse injuries cost from by medical perspective you would say you load is too high reduce your load
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but with galen space i'm not strong enough so then i come in
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with a preventive message saying you need to do less well
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they think they need to do more to get stronger to withstand
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the forces they out to the loads they are uh enforced
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so even though you're trying to do the same thing trying to put that balance your message
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needs to be different to get your sexual looking for and there's a disconnect between
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the objective by medical view and the view of context and
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that's what we need to get it if i'm yeah yeah yeah but i think that
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follows up on what you presented before with the kids it's cool when you say
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oh you had this idea of a program that gets than fitter the
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what the the school once that's who wanted that to be more
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cognitive you academically able and so it's about understanding what it is that they
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want they feel they want and then uh trying to address that
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the value with i just want to so and i will comment on that
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one of a lot of my research that i do is out in nam have k. c.
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now in the u. k. and there is a lot to uh be set
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that that the complex intention develop mainframe what actually does exist and
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i think you know the the you can see that the successful interventions at last that
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get implemented and about how they get implemented is by engaging the the end user
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add and back needs to be done right at the beginning if it's cultures it's an athlete
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all of these people need to be involved in that process to to design it
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intention it is absolutely critical advice we have really ah wasting our time
00:14:55
quick comment and when we talk about the end user maybe this is one thing that
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we should try to aim for today is i mean who is the end user
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um easy yeah i think two dozen shouldn't be injured with the
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coaches is it your organisations all different measures of possible
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but and and like courses you come in and
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i think we we not only need a button not french but also the top down
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and and the problem at the moment is it's poly sci so think
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them many guidelines on how to remove fits connectivity sports and
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and and that but they're still very nice knowing
00:15:35
how to in demented that intonational international level
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and at the moment we're revising the gloom and double action
00:15:43
plan on physical activity for the well has something fishy
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and and again i think we have to make sure that all these policies did with
00:15:53
not staying on the paper but freely get implemented in if we talk about
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cool and and and what should be implemented it's cool i think the the time she to
00:16:03
really discuss it and and and to increase the
00:16:06
pressure on on government and international convention
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and um yeah i i heard in dallas at the level of this conference interested
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in that last here whole long does it
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take to implement songs into tractors
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at seventeen years
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so it's the next generation and i like the comment about the
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end user and you know who built the most home
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but the big this electrical call
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didn't come from the car industry was someone who build a cop around
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tall so we have to ask the end you the user
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um what do we have to change the same thing with the schools they want to to to improve
00:17:05
the yeah home grades but not spoiled and i think that's that's the challenge for the next year's
00:17:12
well the the research that says that we need seventeen used to to implement uh from
00:17:17
research subtracted it took seventeen years for us to rely that that research said that
00:17:21
okay and the other we know that we have all the the feel
00:17:25
that with things a little bit accelerating and we have ways of
00:17:29
first communicating intimate informing and then maybe implementing a bit differently
00:17:34
and and it's all about how was that research actually implemented in order
00:17:38
to reach parties and there's you ways and i think we're done
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pointed to the notion of human centre design and i think we we we should go back to that uh definitely
00:17:49
but this is not a knock on a medicine science because
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the the approach to medicine science evidence is is turned reduction is and we take things apart
00:18:02
to understand the individual components that come together to provide a solution
00:18:07
and those are the great advances that have been made in infectious diseases and so for that there is another
00:18:14
parks and that is where are really complex problems
00:18:17
are are not saul by the reductionist approach
00:18:21
so if you look at a time when surgery was ah
00:18:26
no aesthetic and no other products for all the infections
00:18:30
and they both came out at roughly the same time and the aesthetics to call within about four five years
00:18:37
he did the screening patients particular thirty or forty years to get any product
00:18:42
because if the patient diaper started we didn't really affect the surgery
00:18:46
so that's that's an example of an area where science doesn't have any impact because we knew baccarat
00:18:52
like x. it four years ago but it's not widely used because us or just didn't
00:18:57
that that's a human centre design issues so bottom del taco however you look
00:19:02
at it i think evidence is one sort of bell shaped curve
00:19:07
and there's another bell shaped curve some kind of human
00:19:10
factors that go into whether this is really effective
00:19:13
where those two curves overlap is the ideal sweet spot to create solutions that work for people
00:19:22
yeah um i don't know clark from basis ah but the federation or um
00:19:28
i'd like to chew it 'cause position of being both directly coach so i'm one of
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the end users but i'm also um a policy maker for a user okay
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and for me it's about education and educating the coaches
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i'm i'm getting the message the coaches to be able to
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really into the case and uh implement the um
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the policies that we're trying to get through um i don't know what you think of of of that
00:20:01
um you know well like coming on that's a that's a really
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ah practical uh perspective you you've given the ovens an excellent one nothing
00:20:10
part of the the the challenge with sports on national federations ease
00:20:15
that i uh one i will to value the importance of education
00:20:20
communication an alignment not don't know that we have enough um that sign of stick with the carrot
00:20:26
in terms of that becomes a performance modulator but see that as something for we'll
00:20:31
pass quite good quality information it you cash the second part today is that
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maybe also for the for the sport is these now enough
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keep people like himself who i want to reach that
00:20:45
uh information from the sciences uh to the practitioner huh
00:20:49
and again it's often one of many other things that you would
00:20:52
do it to have someone within its full dedicated to
00:20:56
ah one ideas with the possible coordinating the education is actually
00:21:01
a lot chili's uh for many sports system so
00:21:04
i think uh on the golden he's thought put up there who's that
00:21:08
person to the bridges at the bottom i think that and
00:21:12
you know investigate people who can who can actually provide this service
00:21:17
to this type columns each critical but in terms of the budget it's the last thing on the list i. e.
00:21:26
so it's it's it's listening to a higher something to control go
00:21:32
ahead might do yeah just i mean just considering that there
00:21:36
i mean it's very complex topic of course a lot i mean on
00:21:39
the other hand just referring on the on the intervention it
00:21:44
there has been some some success for example are mainly
00:21:48
we're involving football wins a mention all the
00:21:52
football association and some of them as a endorsed to just now
00:21:57
i would say not to spread out the problem but
00:22:00
to engage in a in coaching education to provide some basic uh ellen menace
00:22:06
and that is being there are some some excellent examples around the world or
00:22:11
and uh some of them as as being published as well so if you wanna have a look
00:22:16
and uh of course is not they automate solution but it is one huh
00:22:21
one ah practical aspect that can be done and if there is the wheeling willingness
00:22:27
to do it then it's feasible of course other shows a remain but
00:22:33
this is absolutely feasible if they're that person's acting are are willing
00:22:39
tool to endorse decent to promote education i mean as you
00:22:44
mention coaching is one of the key aspects still
00:22:47
maybe also in the curriculum of the coaches working with child and
00:22:54
go ahead and i think it's important also to make a distinction between information and education
00:23:01
and when you are create information material you make it able to stay cool there
00:23:06
but you don't know what they're doing with it when you educate you bring information in
00:23:10
such a way that you can modify curious and get a feedback also funded user
00:23:15
and i think that is thinking sports i'm from the sport okay says hi
00:23:20
i think what is the thing is to work with education professionals in order to bring
00:23:25
no it's even adequate way to the right people and then get feedback so that you know
00:23:30
how efficient the next area was brought to then yes and we can ah
00:23:37
how materials that's i think that's really important if we want to
00:23:40
make sure that not it is efficiently spread in the community
00:23:45
so i think we closing in a little bit on on some issues here um
00:23:51
with the first talks yesterday and the the talent discussion and a broad base
00:23:57
a lot of kids that we want to grow up and be active and and
00:24:01
contribute to health and also to sports and uh and jason you mentioned that
00:24:07
pedagogical aspects in doe's ground layers of very important i think that
00:24:13
is what you're referring to um but it's not just about coaches that are at the the
00:24:19
bottom starting part of the educational part as a coach they're involved with the the kids
00:24:25
when they most need those uh quality even those educational component so how do we tackle that
00:24:35
so that's a difficult one because uh and it's if you have a wanna know the solution
00:24:40
to something follow the money money's the topping the parcel isn't a weekly for touchy but
00:24:46
i'm from an idealistic would've you we would like to uh flatten
00:24:51
the coaches hierarchy so that we equally value those small
00:24:56
he recalls working and having gripe this contact with children
00:25:00
and supplying the note i didn't even write feedback
00:25:03
you know we wanna say within else falls for actually that we value you as much as
00:25:09
there's a beach taking the actually to tell you that you guys
00:25:13
um it's more important what she'd die all have equal importance in development
00:25:18
and but but you need to write input at the right on the right skills it full the task you hate that
00:25:24
of course um we don't uh appalachia those kind of resources so
00:25:29
you know i guess john shift the the bite a little bit to to in
00:25:33
heritage and all the recognise the importance of some those italy coaches in
00:25:38
often you hear about it within a split a particular lake she will do
00:25:43
that may ease at a little village have have produced another represented maybe middle it's because
00:25:50
this person was the the guru office contacted without the installer generation uh and
00:25:57
but that that's one thing which obviously is flattened coaching ha easy sit on on uh
00:26:04
anybody else could you comment on the panel
00:26:08
no
00:26:10
uh
00:26:12
well i'm really much believe in the end user can't happen ass
00:26:16
and then but then also quote a henry for us
00:26:20
pa nineteen twenty before it got the first car but it by it that ended up faster horse
00:26:25
and so then he bought the car and then that changed our generation a little bit so there's a little bit of
00:26:29
spoon feeding with some of the concepts to of of finding some balance between with you know whatever was mentioning is
00:26:36
getting strong immunity and when loaded the problem we have to doubt that out and
00:26:40
we've done qualitative studies and look into it for example special station or
00:26:44
families do not have a concern about it um and maybe that's
00:26:49
not the only thing we study says that at the development
00:26:52
but we still have technology that we're finding associations of potential rest i think there's that out so
00:26:58
thing yes we we need to connect you with the end user that we have to still trust other that the science as we're having that discussion
00:27:09
uh so i'll jump in on that a little bit to because you mentioned load there's been a lot of talk about training load but
00:27:15
i still see on the field many parts of the world is a
00:27:18
lot of improvisation that happens you know coaches coach they do things
00:27:24
mainly they get quantify really things get to a critically analyst
00:27:28
and these like visiting one of the reasons why we see a lot of injuries is because the
00:27:33
the planning of the trading is actually no happening in in organic matter and if we can draw
00:27:38
a parallel with schools we have a school system in education system that is built on
00:27:44
modules progressions assassinations ways of equalising teaching don't you think
00:27:49
it's about time we get something like that useful
00:27:56
anybody yeah how do we get it done that
00:28:03
whose responsibility is it is easy to figure nations the traditional ones that national ones
00:28:08
coaching association has anyone got yanked around the world i closest to having it's i don't
00:28:16
know there's few elements that seem to appear but this doesn't seem to be
00:28:20
a structure where you do when you know would be uh but my question is how how do you develop offence to from
00:28:27
six years all the way out to being a senior fence it there are some very
00:28:31
generic guidance but actually never happens what is appropriate for voting useful to do
00:28:37
and and i don't quite understand why because no sports and growing better
00:28:40
professionals the small coaches but it doesn't seem to be uh
00:28:45
are we doing yeah i'll give one model that seem to work on
00:28:48
us because this is the use parse crisis and us despite
00:28:52
all of this talk about sports we believe most sports are decreasing
00:28:56
and participation so the national governing bodies and out listening
00:28:59
and you have to say happy with most concerned about that within just a
00:29:02
quick question asked it with the intense early training and and those concerns
00:29:07
so u. s. a. hockey the national governing body then made to decisions
00:29:11
one is to change their construct and structure of there's four
00:29:15
but they had the mini the ice was divided into many sections
00:29:19
and they were smaller a person's for smaller classes age appropriate
00:29:23
um and then they discourage them from doing intense training they actually told him to go play other sports and
00:29:30
then the second part of the require coaching certification that advocate for like the model they wanna do
00:29:36
and whether this is just an association reject result of it their numbers actually increased
00:29:42
in terms of how participation and we tension because the the little
00:29:46
kids were playing but they were leaving but then now
00:29:49
they're keeping them eight twelve years old and that their measure of success so now we're using that as a
00:29:55
american done um i would clearly was an american uh but that make america great again ah
00:30:02
and so we're using that i thought the model as the way a national governing body
00:30:06
can work on both kinds of policy change than also coaching uh education adhesive
00:30:12
with with a certification to the other do you can't coach us the acting lesson passes a vacation
00:30:18
does anybody know of any similar program or anything anything
00:30:22
along those lines what happens in a dutch hockey
00:30:28
well not talking is kind of a strange association to be on its uh huh
00:30:35
hawking is like high social social economic loss and that is driven mostly the fans they
00:30:41
have a driven mostly by high rates turns the for kids to play hockey
00:30:46
so this is really small association really rich one by that
00:30:51
way as well because antisocial come placeholder board members
00:30:56
they are the directors of our our big companies so they they have good management skills
00:31:02
good contacts and and that really helps um i was at a one of
00:31:07
a symposium is uh like last month we had european championship parking
00:31:12
you see all these people together so there's the director philips and as
00:31:16
the director of of shell and all that basic in one room
00:31:20
and they talk about hockey and we talk about how the games or be within
00:31:24
them networking based on back company and m. and s. on some money
00:31:29
how they comes just support youth development from for men only having fun stage to get
00:31:35
him uh the best him and when they all the um how to do that
00:31:40
and that creates so much resources and drive that i haven't seen any other association
00:31:45
um how to get that magic i don't know how good those high level uh people uh
00:31:51
in all associations but uh i think this was a good case study for me at least to see how it can happen
00:31:58
um and how these different views can work together i still haven't figured out how
00:32:03
to translate such a model anywhere else uh how to grasp such model but
00:32:08
still thinking of that so if you awesome does again in two months i will have announced a problem
00:32:13
i like your optimise their own it anybody else want to have anything on this
00:32:22
with silent um with talk talks about hours of training and
00:32:28
special wise or not and uh and we finished with the last presentation but will go on
00:32:33
load in different aspects of load and a lot of literature goes around that
00:32:38
and uh and obviously there's been a lot less literature in use athletes
00:32:44
but how do we actually do it because i guess if i'm sitting in my office tonight it
00:32:49
happens everyday nicely young athletes come in and i try to understand what they're low this
00:32:55
but it is extremely difficult for me to understand what they're loaded any
00:32:59
finance then they they don't really know they can't even express it
00:33:03
so if we ought to consider those elements as key aspects of
00:33:08
okey drivers of us safer packed this or implementing some prevention detection
00:33:14
how do we do when we don't even have those numbers in any shape before i forgot maybe would like to comment on
00:33:23
yeah i have the i thankful task of sort of standing up or giving the general overview
00:33:29
just actually quite a bit easier than answering your question if i'm in
00:33:34
and i will refer one i'm just send that question maybe to the audience because
00:33:39
i'm sure there are people here that are working with athletes and the have
00:33:43
their ways of um not really down on that and then with all the
00:33:48
complexities of you know young athletes participating different teams a different groups um
00:33:54
and possibly with new technology and so that's that's in the direction i'm thinking but i don't think i have um
00:34:02
you know the answer but which
00:34:05
somebody and
00:34:06
you go
00:34:08
um hum
00:34:13
okay
00:34:17
uh_huh
00:34:21
thank you and well that what what else the on breast with money and mansion direct
00:34:26
as helping ass left there have less than how to get the best that's an
00:34:33
what we're trying to do is really just to use use technologies like you said you know
00:34:37
and he's and things like that trying to create a sort of critical mass off um
00:34:42
you know clinicians tactician as a people that one again people
00:34:46
all even just that you know athletes on high level
00:34:50
to try to get you some sort of that consensus what are the best and kind of cool
00:34:55
slice of how we can actually start to my sellout and and how we respond to that
00:35:00
um you know we use things like what subgroups and things like that to begin to kind
00:35:04
of create this is critical mass that shane summation to begin with and then test it
00:35:09
uh you know the the best best thing that i can think of
00:35:12
how to monticello doing an athlete is is problems it is subjective
00:35:16
and marcus five because it's so easy and she do it every am
00:35:21
you know if you ask that pass now integrated into a an
00:35:26
into at program by the coach actually gathers that information and then molds the program on
00:35:31
top of it it's actually very useful and and goodbye of of doing that
00:35:36
and in terms of tracking reuse boards we use board interface you'll see a room and that you know
00:35:41
and create um kind of like a sharing have channels the athletes is lao survey
00:35:46
you now days they look after each have that they they work as a team even
00:35:50
tell track and field is an individual sport we try to put them into
00:35:54
kind of working groups if you like to look after each other spot chat i know how how they
00:35:59
how they train how many reps they do sell you know we can start them track face you know on excel sheet
00:36:05
savages trance transferring misinformation from that war up on the computer
00:36:10
and tried and then track that to to time
00:36:13
see munching sleep at looking at um you know apps on have watches they'll have their you
00:36:19
know their fall and put it on the piano you come on i said that's the
00:36:23
patterns and the other really good ah is um training peaks
00:36:29
that calculates probably hat official level of allowed of the amount of load
00:36:33
tens of intensity and how that ah track a progress is seeking yet
00:36:38
lots of a very detailed information over a long time and that is the key thing it's the
00:36:44
long get along longevity of the machine that you can ban impress upon into your interventions
00:36:50
that that is that that is the t. v. and it's not really a bad taking
00:36:53
that one step the snapshot alaskan asking somebody will dental days like you say voice
00:36:58
people don't often they don't they don't understand what you mean by
00:37:02
that you know they they they don't see that psychology
00:37:05
school wide g. c. s. e.s exams all of these things actually allowed they don't see it as loud
00:37:12
okay so we we know there's a ton of apps and this what the training pizza or the tools
00:37:18
uh and and we show the show it to them and the they're not doing it so um and
00:37:24
we collaborate with coaches and we talk about i get a training environments that common the they'd like
00:37:30
frost to set up a system of working together of communication i talk about money train
00:37:35
and start with simple stuff excel spreadsheet so then maybe and ah except for the
00:37:41
this the yeah well studied yeah we'll do it no they don't um
00:37:45
so uh i understand the longitudinal data we need to have that i think we can all agree on that
00:37:52
but the bottom line is if we can't get anyone to start really recording if you use it
00:37:57
small things and we haven't even talked about what these parameters we talk about subjective parameters being important
00:38:02
how does a twelve year olds objectively evaluate training or parameters that's another question are they going to um but
00:38:10
should we talk to the parents should parents be monitoring vote should the coaches
00:38:17
but that would mean command with um the technologies is extremely important
00:38:24
if we want to to do systematic of money driven
00:38:28
i think it's also important to to the children and the parents and one of the and the
00:38:34
pediatricians put edition and have worked for twenty more than twenty years with didn't have then
00:38:40
changing uncritically support technician on that on an international level
00:38:45
i think uh it's important to evaluate the the global hands of children
00:38:51
not only the physical have it it's a good indicator to the pain and and
00:38:57
and number uh uh the rate of injury but also the the well being
00:39:02
actually how do they feel if they have fun going to train because in some
00:39:09
the period something here it's getting so hot with school in train
00:39:14
competition that the the sometimes don't have fun going between
00:39:19
and and i'm the one don't want to go one and and i think
00:39:22
that's the important indicator it's easy usually associated with overuse injury which party
00:39:29
ah with least explain important if we asked systematically
00:39:33
the time when the good too bad and
00:39:35
when they wake up and how they sleep usually young athletes go to bed tonight
00:39:41
because they go to school in between and they come back home nathan
00:39:45
and they have a dinner usually late so that's an important question
00:39:50
and and it i think it's also important to access school performance
00:39:56
usually young athlete to decree sports performance
00:40:01
ah dick resulted in school performance and same time soon
00:40:05
yeah i think thing the the global had packed like it's important the problem is it takes time
00:40:11
and we can not as uh has professional fee or laugh meet
00:40:15
regularly seven important to teach 'em coaches the tools to parents
00:40:20
to be aware of of these difficulties to have an open i
00:40:25
one eight and and to discuss it with the trial and with the qualities
00:40:30
i guess it talk assess evaluated takes time but what and how do we do it
00:40:35
because uh we can all agree with what you said and and we we face that all the time but how practically
00:40:42
do we go from this room monday and we start implementing something
00:40:48
uh_huh
00:40:52
uh_huh hello um my name is that one can sign
00:40:55
head of physical education at the international screw geneva
00:40:59
and uh it's interesting to uh analysts work moved
00:41:04
on and up on an excel sheet cetera
00:41:08
but when you re i'm trying to get back to is feeling is understanding
00:41:13
i think we have to sort of get back to nature little bit with our young individuals
00:41:18
and uh yeah the the not feeling uh getting the deep feelings when they're physically
00:41:24
exercising and they're unable to understand the the war puts that they're going through
00:41:29
as a parents teachers coaches would would be one for
00:41:34
children we want them to be a an
00:41:38
healthy happy and strong and it's they have the few uh themselves so it's great
00:41:44
to write it down a on an excel sheet over not to tell you
00:41:49
but i think we really have to get back to the not choose
00:41:52
side of being physically active though that's what i found and i've
00:41:56
played sports a high level of good children you're doing that and often i'm just going back to saying how do you feel
00:42:05
what's going on your board you listen to boredom so i think we have
00:42:08
to move a little bit in the area of a mind tunis
00:42:13
and getting back to nature and uh doing things uh that make you happy
00:42:18
and sometimes to bring in ah that's another technology can can a can
00:42:22
confuse a young child and when i work with young children
00:42:27
i'm saying that'll work how do you feel at the end of the lesson lie
00:42:30
down breed and listen to your body and feeling is understanding for me
00:42:40
i don't see that someone else that's something yeah i'm i'm going shopping yeah
00:42:47
yeah i um i agree with you actually or and i'm a than mainly due to the sort
00:42:54
of pragmatic to some of the situation that you get onto on on that level where
00:42:59
because i don't think there's a dichotomy between you sort of your also them the polarisation that we also spoke to us that
00:43:05
i i do think that uh these things can coexist but
00:43:09
at that level i strongly believe in encouraging a conversation
00:43:16
i'm encouraging a young athletes to to listen to the bodies and
00:43:20
try to to feel how they feel and
00:43:26
eyes i certainly has some very below average i'm directly had that
00:43:29
experience myself um when i was playing soccer and football
00:43:33
that some days i would just really feel invulnerable for injury or um
00:43:39
huge reached into to it the whole holistic picture of your daily have so i
00:43:44
had to do this week was crazy you have a game of thursday or
00:43:48
you know you have a pact isn't just feel like you did not get the rest you needed or
00:43:51
so i think there's value there and of course then you're ready to all sorts of problems with
00:43:55
in terms of if you wanna quantify this but that's you know that's that's them secondary to actually
00:44:02
teaching your kids to to listen to how they feel and i think there's great value there
00:44:10
i guess and uh and the guy put up the ten commandments of changes that at least give
00:44:17
whatever comment i've actually really uh appreciate this concept of feel in i
00:44:21
think the first there's the moral question when you have a lead
00:44:23
twenty two year old actually when you say you go as hard as
00:44:27
you can you explore that a deadline when you cross that
00:44:31
put yourself at risk you might get hurt in mind i am i ever train become a cop and you go back
00:44:36
so the moral question is is that okay eighteen is that okay it sixteen that is that okay fourteen is that okay to well
00:44:43
when is it okay that one of us has to say that lines to five
00:44:48
where's that line and so stop report of our school week and these
00:44:52
h. versus ours rules which i completely stop when my coaches as a friend and
00:44:57
is that that's what i don't let them go more hours per week than
00:44:59
eighty and then i studied at an independent risk and then i propose now it's
00:45:04
my role as that you don't publish so you don't get it uh
00:45:08
and all it is is it's speed limits in so you have to have some kind
00:45:12
of your writing down you know uh an expressway and you don't know if it's
00:45:16
a forty mount are needed now now we have to get parents coaches and speed
00:45:19
limit that yet and there's gonna be exceptions but it the more question is
00:45:23
when do you allow that the exceed or not and i i'd like ours because it they
00:45:28
know honey hours week they signed up for training program and they can be quite bad
00:45:32
fairly easily and there's there's a lot of the subject quite a
00:45:36
bit 'cause isn't on the research side but yet still
00:45:40
uh it's a very user friendly and you can compare to your age compared to how much you play other sports and and
00:45:46
and so if s. even eleven around and they're doing sixteen or eighteen hours a week you might just say well
00:45:52
that seems like quite a bit and it's natural intuition so maybe that's what you can do on monday
00:45:58
for others well i imagine that we will you listen and then try to
00:46:03
teach the young athletes to listen to the body and i've had
00:46:06
how many tell me or that they don't know what that means or don't have it
00:46:10
was into my body because that doesn't mean anything to them uh if that
00:46:17
well when we asked a similar question a qualitative study i just referred to
00:46:21
and then these adult that it so um that's disclosure
00:46:26
but what they say is the best place for them to
00:46:30
take up injury prevention messages is to be injured
00:46:33
because they learn from that they learn how the body reacts tell them when they go to five and then
00:46:39
they start to do that in texas size or then they start to listen to the coach and
00:46:47
no i i yeah i honestly think that if this happens this process happens in adult
00:46:53
this same process in a different way meant different level is happening in these young athletes as well um
00:47:00
and i think part of that high dropout rate due to injuries
00:47:03
because they can't call with the process when they get injured
00:47:07
so instead of trying to measure a lot of things before they get injured of course we need to model model what looked at them
00:47:14
and manage risks i think there's also a big big opportunity to
00:47:18
just really listen to them and explain to them what happened
00:47:22
go to their level i mean get way educate them to befriend next time and it's sports still healthy
00:47:28
it can still be fun and how they came how they can manage that risk for themselves
00:47:34
so we should should not only look at the first but but also that the second part
00:47:38
i think we're missing that in this discussion maybe we saw in the
00:47:42
presentation uh by christine home uh from the norwegian athletes that
00:47:48
about two thirds of injuries were recurrent injuries or secondary injuries so
00:47:52
that would be for that sort of secondary prevention or
00:47:55
a opportunity to to educate that's what you're saying the but when you get them in
00:48:00
fees you you'll put stuff on the board and then that's an opportunities oh
00:48:06
we have one of the bible that
00:48:09
can i ask my quest first got the one has to make rubber have something to tell the topic
00:48:15
i have two numbers that are so strange for me on one side if you're coming from
00:48:21
walking the walk from one place went for hunting and everything so it means that people
00:48:25
walking about ten to twenty kilometres a day now we're sitting eight ten hours
00:48:30
so in my opinion pieces paradox and when we don't have to like to
00:48:35
olympic standards that we need to train this the best the best or
00:48:41
in one spot so you have to go and see them so that means you have to see even more
00:48:47
so in my case now i'm responsible for all the ski uses kigali
00:48:51
uh it's i need to keep the children home because they're they can go out the door and
00:48:59
sport because when i have them in the core you're losing time and they're also sitting
00:49:05
so this is on your media interesting products it's so close and you're going
00:49:09
so far instead of doing nothing just in front of the door
00:49:21
well let me make the assertion sort of based on an anecdote um sometimes i don't
00:49:28
don't help to to you know to give to give a good idea to subject
00:49:31
and one of the um he wasn't one of the elites assertion is that uh the
00:49:36
best athletes out there also the best uh listening to the body they don't
00:49:40
necessarily have apps or i i'm sure they do put your late but certainly i mean
00:49:45
are you searches that they might not need them as much as others and um
00:49:50
this is the story of a region um at least clear cross country
00:49:53
skier certain insurance sports like yours mostly running warmer tone or uh
00:49:57
mm breath or something like that so they they it's it's it's an
00:50:01
exercise in that last for for now are more and he
00:50:06
was relentless in not in in if somebody has a has a training diaries there's thomas all school
00:50:13
he was relentless in following is um the signals from the body his training
00:50:17
diary said that he was going to do our part interval session
00:50:22
today or you want one on friday but he thought that was just fire you he he sets himself he would just
00:50:29
rest at home in the car when the coach for day or two or five was really let it wasn't following his own
00:50:35
body rhythm and then basically we just go out and kill it and then they would do that in just followed body
00:50:41
and he was the best skewing the broke now that's an anecdote doesn't mean much in the big picture
00:50:45
but i think it's it's an i. d. for us to to take a more to think about
00:50:54
it could be the question here can i i i just from the marker so can i uh yeah
00:51:00
just go on thank you um i wanna come back to what you said about about teaching
00:51:06
about talking to parents and and i but i think you guys forget something here
00:51:13
or explain to me how come stat and th
00:51:18
eleven twelve two g. fifteen euro there have
00:51:22
practitioner gear do a lot of of physical activity and
00:51:28
then coming back all at four five o'clock
00:51:32
edifying frames and dave playing for four hours
00:51:36
two one two three on three soccer a pond hockey or or back yard hockey
00:51:42
whatever and nobody is asking about the a mound of login and about
00:51:48
about uh injuries and whatever they're just go they're they're having fun
00:51:54
and get do allow they're probably scientifically the over do
00:52:01
to find the gong show why should we stop in there
00:52:06
and we actually did a asked that question yes about free play and we noticed actually
00:52:12
that the it was the source economic study on those kids when the lower socioeconomic status
00:52:18
had more on organised activities like you're describing they had
00:52:22
more physical actively hours per week uh approaching
00:52:25
back eighteen to twenty hours per week in it'll lowest weight of series of these injuries
00:52:31
so was just the organised sports activities that create that 'cause it's not self directed
00:52:36
then with subtracted like you explain the rest in my estimation
00:52:39
but there's very little data is probably lower in those
00:52:43
settings so i would encourage then i think we do sing and the increasing that have effectively it's price
00:52:49
it may be protected that we need help that i haven't seen any other data and that lets you guys are away
00:52:58
well apart from from the physical lot um but what we see happening in ellen's for instance
00:53:03
is that we have this talent development programs of these children get high quality coaching guidance
00:53:10
which usually is a bit far away from home because that's that's separated in districts
00:53:15
so these kids they go to school at eight thirty in the morning and mostly they already had a training session
00:53:21
that they need to travel for one and a half or maybe
00:53:23
two hours to get to that central training uh a facility
00:53:29
into trying to do the homework then they do the training there we travel back how many of delicately parents
00:53:35
pick them up but for a kid is is uh from seven to mine in the evening continuously working
00:53:42
and that doesn't mean necessarily have to be physical work but still meant to work and
00:53:46
it's it takes them out if i look at my kids they come home
00:53:50
from school at four unlikely they're not elite athletes but still they need to do
00:53:54
homework to late at night and then at eight and nine minute finally done
00:53:59
we say that can i play on the computer or they can place when l. because then you need to go
00:54:03
to bed so they smell free time for these kids anymore and and that's one other little it's completely forgotten
00:54:10
and adding to what nearly just said i think having them play outside you're lucky if they
00:54:14
play outside because usually they they jump behind the playstation places out there these days
00:54:20
um but chronic load is good too and i think that's good not just below it because it's a high level but
00:54:26
also because it had different skills and techniques and and strength
00:54:31
um to them but they don't getting a sport specific
00:54:34
train so that that ability increases by which the injury risk decreases it to it got it
00:54:45
we have a pushy high i work in a football account music it's true it's eleventh radiating we ask
00:54:51
it's it's eleven session or p. e. after every session if i and all the way through
00:54:57
uh it's a like kate's it's eleven twelve i don't think the good understanding of why they feel while that's actually was
00:55:05
they get better i feel as the progress we treat our to to valley costly
00:55:09
and i think of a better understanding of how hard that's actually was
00:55:14
do you think it's a pointless exercise i think it's an educational tool asking or p. it's eleven
00:55:19
twelve to get tickets to think about how that's actually was to listen to the bottom
00:55:27
uh_huh
00:55:28
anyone question
00:55:33
you you you and your interest lies a market i mean well we we
00:55:36
don't use it in our academic because he was a pointless exercise
00:55:40
i pretty much uh we we stopped doing it but i think one of the other reasons was that
00:55:44
ease really culture specific you know in some cultures they would not let me
00:55:49
yeah yeah the the pain or they they are struggling show and then we didn't have probably get up a
00:55:55
translation they they could be meaningful so we we don't do that so especially young people is the
00:56:02
it's but probably caps back to duty levy all asked what we were hearing before it's important to
00:56:07
ask how you do and just in general how what you and then sam sam kate's
00:56:14
my express their emotions sound all but i i think sometimes
00:56:18
you can be a start but we stopped using it
00:56:20
in a systematic way because we would not getting anything when you use if everybody else wants to comment
00:56:27
if i just wanted to some value even i'm having
00:56:32
recovery on a high feelings a navy um the validity of
00:56:37
the up he may not necessarily be the but
00:56:39
fact that it's just in the list for the athlete to stop and think and
00:56:43
reflect on how to ah feeling and to to talk about it so
00:56:47
and he saw it so i'm not sure i think maybe it could be some that advantage for that and they need
00:56:53
there's always i think some advantage fall a systematic prevented the
00:56:58
education people for the athletes for the for the parents
00:57:01
and for the coaches told before but they you know important although i play in in the overall uh and
00:57:08
package of development and so um i think you know anything that sort
00:57:12
of joystick given a hand out with it's about helping of late
00:57:16
with self regulatory uh the fact is whether it's a and hoping the coach to
00:57:24
i think the catches actually intend to load management actually pretty good by enlarge it uh and
00:57:30
sort of understanding with the athletes a coping with this stimulus i think
00:57:35
we perhaps undressed an idea abilities in this regard maybe or coaches
00:57:39
in the room that here about having to do an excel spreadsheet and put a
00:57:43
lots of guided to the knowledge to uh had i think is going but
00:57:47
a lot of folks in the catches a lot of work with uh i don't like that approach but
00:57:52
they do it in should really that with the coping and but then i don't
00:57:56
know what all the low parameters ah but i know that something's not raw
00:58:00
now the peewee dollars which i knew what to to to give the athletes something else uh is
00:58:05
ah just make a point about the benefits is
00:58:08
prevented education stimulus full discussion about those things
00:58:16
i just hope that it happened
00:58:25
it had a hot yeah right
00:58:35
oh i see
00:58:43
i wish i caught
00:58:51
yeah i i i i
00:58:59
what i what i guess
00:59:05
let's see what what approach
00:59:11
it's just i oh well
00:59:19
do do you think we should use that as a let's say a year of uh
00:59:24
educating themselves around these parts of measures or evaluations
00:59:29
knowing that we commonly used the downtown
00:59:32
but that they're gonna get used to it does anybody have that sort of experience
00:59:38
uh_huh
00:59:42
uh_huh uh_huh
00:59:46
well i'm with a different group so i've tried to use that something like
00:59:49
i. p. yeah i feel like at least six month uh when there
00:59:53
in that maybe unit dollar sent or early adolescence or eleven twelve thirteen fourteen
00:59:58
uh before the the the on the stand the idea of it of course if
01:00:01
it's reinforced on a regular basis by the coaching environment and if we if
01:00:06
we i say we because on the medical doctor when i see them i
01:00:09
actually asked about that and if they see that the within the environment
01:00:14
is the measured that has some value for different stakeholders
01:00:19
and and this is just like you were talking about the other elements as well
01:00:22
um i don't know it do we touch in on a little bit of
01:00:26
the interdisciplinary way of working where we need to build a common language and
01:00:31
and that's just one example but the out there could be many others
01:00:35
mark uh what do you think in in the academy where you actually have been to
01:00:39
the to the night yeah it it's it's challenging everywhere you interdisciplinary i think
01:00:45
probably one of the other opinions they we don't explore by choose the a lot of things
01:00:50
that get me fired these days you know kids like games and be due gains in
01:00:55
you know my son can tell you the fee for ratings of every single player in the in the game
01:01:00
so we should probably look at ways to engage we yeah yeah politically swayed guinea phi
01:01:07
whatever we need to do a because of the under they were we trying
01:01:09
to accomplish is a behavioural change if we want them to follow the
01:01:14
the pretty uh application stuff to warm up things didn't we should know
01:01:19
and that means we we need to find ways that that language is appropriate for that age will
01:01:24
probably give me fine could be could be solution uh i'm actually very curious to us
01:01:30
but it's people independent so we have a physiotherapy is we
01:01:33
have a medical doctors we have sports scientists rehabilitation is
01:01:37
we'll try to at one point to influence the decline the end user to make sure they do the right thing
01:01:43
and i'm curious to know how i ask a in particular works when it
01:01:48
tries to implement change nutritional happy it's what was be nice experience
01:01:53
and if we seen any change in the last few years what works what doesn't work
01:01:58
uh i think unfortunately um the answer that i would give is that there's no one size
01:02:03
fits all and and i think it's really important to understand who we are trying to
01:02:09
uh influence and then uh put a program together that is
01:02:13
appropriate for that person or that group to your work
01:02:17
and i i think it's impossible to come up with
01:02:20
something that works for in all situations what
01:02:24
has been your biggest challenge when you try to implement your intuition buys you nutrition program
01:02:29
um i thought it's a it's a whole variety of challenges i
01:02:35
think depending on who you you work with a um
01:02:39
it it could be a working with a group of the four years that
01:02:47
not necessarily that interest it a which is a typical uh example i think
01:02:54
uh um how do you get them to be interested i and
01:03:00
i think the answer there is just gauge and given things ah
01:03:05
of interest to them uh um do really simple actions with them
01:03:10
uh i'm a talking yesterday about even just measurements of body weight before
01:03:16
after training now after you get a little bit of discussion about
01:03:21
how much select that eh training so
01:03:28
that discussion would be in another situation would would
01:03:31
be meaningless yeah it's really it's uh
01:03:36
yeah every situation it's good for any comments from the feature therapists because you
01:03:40
face the same issues you try to indicate and to do things
01:03:45
yeah the line extends and the better chance we have
01:03:50
to change things i think it's when will you
01:03:56
the other we're really i relationship with the tour with
01:03:59
the coaches and discuss things and take times
01:04:03
this could be done by screening you know that's screening time we we do
01:04:08
and we can you know we we measure things but we also talk about those
01:04:14
and explain how far findings and tried to
01:04:18
um to do some uh intervention
01:04:23
sometimes they have a a lot of questions about other topics
01:04:27
like a is it a useful to do some stretching
01:04:30
or is it to us and simple questions that difficult to answer to that uh i think if we
01:04:37
had actually to have time or to invest time
01:04:41
in relationship than we can have some influence
01:04:50
but i can add something just icing mark or you were alluding i'll kind
01:04:55
of up to sell i've sell the and maybe an exercise or
01:05:00
or to of course some either out the door just i mean just from empirical experience
01:05:07
and from from our group or colleagues and uh i mean uh i don't
01:05:13
know any studies about it but if you have a role model so
01:05:16
that are made performing or saying something or they are they're showing i don't
01:05:22
know what the real an exercise then especially with his young people then
01:05:27
much easier to sell it not all the same now you have to do one two three specifically but uh
01:05:33
look maybe nine mar or missed what they're telling or i'll i'll they are doing
01:05:39
or um or maybe a coach maybe a famous
01:05:43
coaches this uh is having eclipse telling something
01:05:49
i mean just just empirical but uh it works a lot and and
01:05:53
people often listen listen to these they one listen to last
01:05:58
uh doing a presentation but if you have a short clip but with a famous former lecture or
01:06:05
absolutes coaches or whatever they are more team to to follow
01:06:09
these because they are seen as their role model in
01:06:14
whatever whatever this means yeah the fun well
01:06:20
i think that the the more the new but maybe
01:06:25
we can use to new technology to help us
01:06:30
the technology of the next yeah generation
01:06:34
because we we and when we were repeating
01:06:40
several times that the the same thing to the to the young people maybe we
01:06:46
can use some some three d. some movie like you you you propose
01:06:53
but maybe we we don't know how how we we have
01:06:57
maybe to ask too young how we can give them
01:07:03
the the the information with which kind of support the
01:07:09
the will be the best i think they have dances and not us not to to all sorry
01:07:16
maybe we we need to plan of young people to answer to this question
01:07:23
well with what we don't have on the panel this technology communication behaviour specialist
01:07:29
and everything that we seem to be talking about revolves around communication and behaviour
01:07:34
now uh i'd like to to honest with a but ross gordon the three of you have mentioned
01:07:40
um management uh aspects marketing aspects
01:07:46
and behaviour change aspects and corn you referred a lot to
01:07:50
design thinking human certain design i know you have a
01:07:52
lot of interesting then stanford is a set of the world for that um maybe i'd like to ask you
01:07:58
your fords on on where actually you would like this to go and and this is not
01:08:03
just for you to have it as you mentioned it's also for for help in general
01:08:09
hum hum hum hum on well for a group like this
01:08:17
where where i would like to see it go
01:08:19
is um we know that we need evidence we need 'em sites we need quality data
01:08:27
but i think the emphasis toward understanding how people how much
01:08:32
they care about it will use it needs shaft
01:08:36
so what would you do for example if you wanted to
01:08:39
get a um a sixty four roll widow um
01:08:44
exercising i think she says i don't exercise to stop there and then move or
01:08:51
to find out what's important to that person you you've got all the data on the value of exercise
01:08:57
but i think we wanna stick just need to care more or whether it's in this room
01:09:02
so i just need to care a lot about what coaches think and vice
01:09:05
versa which we need to understand um more about what matters because
01:09:13
you otherwise um we're just not gonna be able work be affected when we try to implement
01:09:19
whether whether it's a medication to medication that should dizzy light headed and nauseated you're not
01:09:23
gonna take even though you have high blood pressure it's the same thing here
01:09:27
it is isolated you know if we sit isolated and don't really care about what other people think
01:09:33
we could develop programmer coach could say i really could care less the
01:09:36
athletes secure but also on the the what we need to do
01:09:40
is fine know what athletes really what what coaches really want and then begin to design
01:09:46
the work we do investigations and the programs around that instead of sort of
01:09:52
well what's being funded or like concussion is the cool thing right now
01:09:57
we we find out what the end user group what's um that's about the
01:10:02
best suggestion i could make except the fact that there are um
01:10:07
there are these tools that can be used and i think the report for overcoming
01:10:12
various up locks or impediments um i'll get a quick examples says lee saunders
01:10:19
was a nurse um in the fifties she married a survivor of
01:10:22
the warsaw ghetto died from cancer well she'll hospital she said
01:10:27
um this isn't a very comfortable experience for my husband that's
01:10:32
wouldn't to hospice but the people that ask all set
01:10:35
we're not gonna do that at hospice didn't exist to one of the reasons they didn't wanna do it is because doctors and nurses
01:10:41
didn't like the idea that they hadn't cured this patient was uploaded there you go
01:10:47
so she spent her life getting hospice put in place which is the shift in mind set
01:10:52
so what we're talking about here is starting a small way to shift the mindset
01:10:56
integrating the top down or doesn't even use that word but the analytical data
01:11:02
yeah but its base data out with the preferences people exhibit that's a big step culturally
01:11:08
but it could start a group like this 'cause we both need each other
01:11:17
question of the part of the uh uh not just about than sports fiction
01:11:22
i think a very much for this uh interesting debate a disgusting about the tombs about
01:11:29
education where we know that turkish we can educate everybody eradicate uh parents et cetera
01:11:36
uh no do you know if it exists uh some um
01:11:42
a checklist or i don't know how to how to learn to
01:11:45
actually it's all bar and some red flags to know
01:11:49
about the body about the behaviours and if they have these talks
01:11:53
to it is a red flags to go to a doctor
01:11:57
or what to ask you to there are and so all of the coach do what do you think about that
01:12:06
oh i'd say briefly that's whatever ten commandments as recognise the red light there is low back shoulder and elbow
01:12:13
project going over and aptly just the least you can tell them don't ignore certain areas of the body
01:12:19
but i agree and i'm sure other people have clinical or research expertise but we
01:12:23
think those three areas editing logically also no support uh can be risk
01:12:36
i want to a question fall if we look at the contents context of injury
01:12:43
and uh um and and we've 'cause we've had somewhat pretty sessions as well and we've
01:12:47
seen some specific injuries that may or may not require a all operative uh intervention
01:12:54
but in the end that there's a there's a rehabilitation phase
01:12:56
that needs to include a many partners and again these
01:13:01
we're not talking about that educational component anymore but about how
01:13:06
do we actually have a successful rehabilitation younger fit
01:13:10
and i'm like just define what what do you consider successful
01:13:15
we have iteration when you have a new problem or that so you have enough to control it is
01:13:19
that needs to be managed for six months for twelve months with a twelve year old forty new
01:13:29
if you could if you know um
01:13:33
what is not working
01:13:36
is the maybe maybe we we we have to
01:13:40
reinforce the communication when installing uh between
01:13:47
do the different um and person one crew to the the patient
01:13:55
doctor feature to just go and parents
01:14:00
because because the we lose the i think we do that a lot of uh of situation
01:14:09
i get a close to to to to to these uh these communication
01:14:17
so on on a practical level we've heard of what subgroups let's take
01:14:21
this example uh who uses what subgroups with uh with reference
01:14:27
okay so there's quite a few people in it and um so we have a few problems with that one is confidentiality
01:14:35
um should we ask about that one first the anybody has issues with confidentiality using what subgroups
01:14:42
to communicate around uh the reallocation or the the the simply management efforts in general
01:14:52
yeah
01:14:54
okay that's a difficult one uh either 'cause i have some issues without actually i find it helps a lot when we can
01:15:00
win the coach can send me an information this one's having a bit more pain and the animal respondent and we'll have
01:15:07
sometimes the athletes also in specific groups that are involved that should
01:15:11
we should we do that should we absolutely not do that
01:15:16
uh_huh
01:15:18
uh_huh
01:15:19
the common body
01:15:29
but the best way would have to be via
01:15:31
email professional email does put some protection but
01:15:36
we see that it's just so difficult to whom they improve the communication with
01:15:41
who to isn't happening to what's happened to good way to go
01:15:45
to transmit a quick information but we should make sure that there
01:15:49
is no one name and would i know it's an
01:15:52
in it so you thing in itself or uh or one thing and
01:15:59
the things that we we need to communicate about how the problem
01:16:04
otherwise the convenience and he's not a preserve
01:16:11
going be that that's one of the uh i guess the main problems that we have when we try to
01:16:16
communicate uh with different people around the health of of it and then when we talk about kids
01:16:21
um then we have extra partners as well we have the the parents and um so
01:16:30
yes go ahead
01:16:34
well i just think this is a matter for agreement
01:16:39
i mean if you have young athletes and the orange and and you have
01:16:44
uh uh stuff for our medical stuff a previous therapies coaches um it
01:16:50
should matter of agreement as soon as you follow that ass
01:16:54
uh you can make an agreement about how to communicate again it's important right
01:16:59
the the uh the analysis of of the the doctors are going to
01:17:04
to get visitor breezed into the coach's show that you can
01:17:08
you can just work uh specifically on the rehash so that yeah i can go back as fast as possible
01:17:14
chewed back to to competition and to uh it to work out because that's what the after a while
01:17:21
show i guess it it here it's not about the difficulty of communication if it's probably
01:17:27
yes but here a. e. g. output is in the centre of everything show
01:17:32
people around yeah i think that we're with yeah i think i should be able to make
01:17:36
an agreement with the africa that would fit and then everything should should work fine
01:17:47
sorry that's what a professional for communication a modern communication would
01:17:53
which ours is that what i heard last time conference
01:17:58
i've got yeah i i use the medium actually quite a lot
01:18:01
what's up or a similar uh facilities to communicate with
01:18:07
especially with young athletes because that's how they got sorry communicate everything is through its reform
01:18:14
um confidentiality might be an issue but i think actually get bigger issue is the effective solve that
01:18:20
communication because if any communication that goes out to a group i don't think it's very effective
01:18:28
but if that's a message reaches you as an individual it's completely different so
01:18:34
um selected messages target more target messages um you can
01:18:40
send it to multiple people at the same time
01:18:43
but they receive it as an individual and that i i think
01:18:46
that's really really key when you communicate with with it
01:18:51
and that that also gets around your confidentiality issues and
01:19:00
more than you you talked about shared decision making um to to take an easy question
01:19:08
oh i'm in the new environment the with the athletes that that the university
01:19:13
and the coaches the for the trainers in features and the scientist
01:19:18
how does share decision making function for athletes that are young and away from home
01:19:26
well it is a good question getting back to confidentiality which is such a big
01:19:31
deal united states you know they it affect shared decision making because um
01:19:39
if the athlete thinks they have to be open with all other information from whether the
01:19:45
taking the birth control pill or with your boyfriend is they're not as open
01:19:52
and you can't have that kind of shared decision making so in the united
01:19:56
states protected health information is a really big deal and leaks of
01:20:01
that kind of information don't just resulting being fired the resulting jail time
01:20:07
so i don't know if that's coming here to europe but
01:20:11
i think you have a better chance it sure decision making which um uh you know all
01:20:17
those kinds of techniques that lead to it um whether it's human centre design or
01:20:23
um you know different interview techniques are really really important but they require
01:20:28
the athlete to the end up in a high trust environment
01:20:32
and yes they will go around to get information as you know from different um people
01:20:38
but um shared decision making doesn't take place if there's any
01:20:43
pressure or intimidation to go up the particular direction
01:20:47
i'm sure decision making probably anyway states is more oriented toward
01:20:52
safety it's less likely that to an athlete who has
01:20:56
um khartoum up he's gonna be cleared that that then they can go on to participate
01:21:02
um but i think sure decision making is critically important of course you have to
01:21:07
have all the pieces of information together what are the risks and so forth
01:21:11
um but it's it's very important um i think usually it works actually pretty well
01:21:19
uh_huh
01:21:21
thank you well i think um we'll take if there's any other question from the crowd
01:21:27
it doesn't seem so i think we all uh i. t. u. t. and a little bit and um
01:21:33
we we need to come to a close um the the young athletes foundation
01:21:39
and the form has been started with the idea of bringing people together
01:21:44
now we have people together again we're trying to to really get to
01:21:48
the bottom of some some complex issues and i understand i realise
01:21:52
that we we're addressing some things that we don't have easy answers for
01:21:56
but that's quite obvious and the the goal the is however
01:22:00
for us for the yeah for the foundation to truthful long
01:22:03
after that conference and try to find some actionable
01:22:07
points and i'd like to ask the the panel members you if i
01:22:11
could go through each of you and and think of one thing
01:22:15
where you would put a little bit of your energy and that's actionable
01:22:21
not about a a research project or something but that's really
01:22:24
moving uh uh translating into practised being knowledge transfer what application in the field
01:22:30
and the and maybe focus thought would after um if you have anything
01:22:34
in mind if you don't recognise that the first one um
01:22:41
yeah and i i think where where i would start an area in the field of nutrition
01:22:46
where uh and sometimes you have the opposite problem
01:22:49
off back assigns implementation and a yeah
01:22:53
take seventeen years some sometimes it's it happens before the papers even published an
01:22:59
all it takes as a as a celebrity to take the idea forward and uh and then suddenly
01:23:05
everyone goes in that direction so i think that's where um it would be
01:23:11
very good to have first of all a at common sense is
01:23:16
around young i young children young young athletes
01:23:22
around what what what are we really trying to make chief on the on the nutrition front
01:23:29
and and i think that consensus is is not there uh yes
01:23:34
i think that that would be a very important starting point
01:23:37
and uh the second biggest challenge is how to get that
01:23:41
information out of course to the to your target
01:23:45
to your target audience and how do you engaged in uh in that in that process
01:23:51
um but i i think i would i would actually stops with getting that that first consensus
01:23:58
and then i really think about how whatever it practical ways to implement its thing
01:24:05
thank you all will be are you looking for actionable items for you if we use organisation or for for for
01:24:13
people work with athletes don't quite understand oh offered for people who work with aphids but
01:24:19
in in the field that you're close to uh not you you've researched on it
01:24:22
but you're knowledgeable in and you feel there's a gap contract is so that we can
01:24:26
actually start having an impact on the field and not in the research feel
01:24:36
oh
01:24:39
i don't know so want practical so you know we haven't thought about this for thirty seconds now on the spot
01:24:45
the one with the first thing that comes to mind is working closely with coaching federations so that's one kind people
01:24:52
thing you can do to have an impact um because there is knowledge here and we need to get it out
01:24:59
um i'm i've spoken to some coaches here today so that you know
01:25:04
we're already belong to this very good start um the
01:25:10
yeah that that that would be i think the main thing because there are various various topics here that were covered during them
01:25:15
during the the rhythm of the conference and that can be
01:25:20
packaged in a way and it becomes somewhat already if
01:25:23
somebody to get out there and have dialogue with with people in coaches in the group that i think
01:25:28
uh it would be valuable to and and it's very it's it's possible you know there are coaching organisations that or
01:25:35
in clubs and sports that are organised already but we can't talk to to reach out
01:25:40
great thanks so we we had the responsible of of one part of switzerland
01:25:45
for coaching and they're doing a the renewing the coaching education program
01:25:50
and it was here yesterday and you push button saying we'd like to see how you can help us a
01:25:55
look at the content or curriculum and the integrate some of the ideas that you express into the problem
01:26:02
so if we can take that away from these two there's i think there's already one one point it in your
01:26:09
gordon um well just one piece of advice would be uh you probably
01:26:15
won't get the speakers back if you keep asking these hard um
01:26:20
well more tours putting away from what i could it what i could see investing in as i i love problem oriented learning
01:26:27
and if a group like this had a series of problems that were presented to coaches are scientists are physicians
01:26:34
um to try to solve how would you help me solve this problem is not just coaches or athletes but
01:26:41
medical staff have problems to how can i to go to the coaching staff it's like
01:26:46
what can i do about this athlete who wants to get the has this problem
01:26:50
it's uh it would be a very interesting way of of try of getting the groups together to to solve problems
01:26:57
and the format i guess would very that would have to be set up but
01:27:01
i i think we could help each other um this is probably the kind of environment that that could
01:27:06
happen in the right so we could create a a database of problems uh that are sold by
01:27:14
interacting with different experts and uh in node the the case studies and the um
01:27:20
the market we said we need to to use case studies more and understand how
01:27:24
we can benefit from the experience of others will take that definitely if it
01:27:30
on maybe does goes a bit in line with what gordon just said uh maybe it's
01:27:34
one step further i think we should walk away with that notion and uh that
01:27:38
um even though we're dealing with with health of athletes let's call it helped much just injuries there's more to it
01:27:45
half is within actually directly he's within a social cultural environment and
01:27:51
we have a lot of evidence and we target directly but
01:27:54
we need to walk away with the notion that um yet lead is part of a
01:27:59
team by team is part of a clap clap clap as part of a
01:28:01
district and you you go on and there's a lot of evidence but each little
01:28:06
bits and pieces of that evidence needs to be imputed reading that social ecological
01:28:10
system in various ways and if we start to try and understand that and put it
01:28:15
down to that level i think eventually it will sift down to get it
01:28:21
right so look that context in general and
01:28:25
little by psycho social models well and and environment and there are
01:28:30
a few folks minded those yemeni formica department first sentence um
01:28:36
the the first one i just wanna make is in this discussion which is not been for the last sort of forty five minutes
01:28:42
one thing that's really important is that you have to understand that your best action is highly
01:28:47
dependent on your specific context so if you're working with thirteen year olds in the school
01:28:54
that's different from working with thirteen year old son academy or clap
01:28:58
and it's very different from like men sixteen or eighteen also if i come to your question the front about asking as kids probably
01:29:04
if you're in a school environments and you got ten eleven you know it's it's absolutely pointless because
01:29:09
we know that the vast majority of people who wonder succeed as young adults and then
01:29:14
into senior sport will not be the best athletes at eleven or twelve so so
01:29:21
what's the what's the purpose of that intervention at that point is this item kind of making censored
01:29:27
so when you're trying to figure out what the best thing to do is you you have to understand what
01:29:31
to specific go isn't for that you need a mac or or like a light of the land
01:29:36
so the number one thing that i would suggest people look at investing in is understand the fly whether athletes in and out
01:29:42
of that system waited i interrupt waited at leave it now that's
01:29:46
obviously enormously complex i think was it market research uh
01:29:50
was it your permit that said well maybe texans yesterday so obviously there
01:29:54
are potentially infinite journeys to the top of that friday huh
01:29:59
but if you don't have some idea of where the f. it's coming in and ah then how can you
01:30:03
possibly plug the gap simpler leave and pull the string and push a button and so that's really important
01:30:09
then the other thing that i think is important is and and it's not feasible
01:30:14
but it's your best coach at a very young labels prix adolescence should
01:30:19
probably be working with your second and third best group of athletes
01:30:23
because that's where the successful actually it's a more likely to come from so that
01:30:27
i would i would look at turning the whole coaching thing upside down
01:30:30
but of course that's not gonna happen you're not gonna go to europe lab and check the basic question having work would be in the c. teams
01:30:36
so the solution instead is what jason eluded to earlier which is that we have to if we have to not flap and the correction
01:30:42
hierarchy but left up the the second your crutches so that's really important
01:30:46
and then the third one is to de emphasise competition because
01:30:49
when you think about the proportion of a child's time in
01:30:53
sport that is spent in actual competition it's incredibly small
01:30:57
it we make all our decisions and all our selections and we
01:31:00
drive the exposure to resources and people annex between based on
01:31:05
what's actually really small components of it tightly in guidance and support net doesn't make sense
01:31:10
so if you can t. emphasise competition it will free you up to invest in other areas and
01:31:14
i think those are practical things that can be done but the key thing to start with
01:31:19
is that you have to know where you are on the net because if you don't have a map in front of you how are you ever gonna get
01:31:24
trying to be so you gotta you gotta draw the methodist and that means understanding
01:31:29
the the context of the sport that you working great thank you know
01:31:35
my will be quite i think yeah what they want and when i
01:31:38
mean which kids that seventy percent to decide to get out of
01:31:42
support because they're something they didn't like about it and if we can change that hide them at thirty percent either are working right
01:31:49
two of forty or fifty percent high we all are any and it's it's for a while i think you're
01:31:56
jason was the question again what you wanna do it on monday or what you should do on monday buttons
01:32:07
they're not well it's not trying to you know i have you guys here
01:32:11
and the that fine trying to get as much of i cannot
01:32:14
so um yeah i you know around all the topics that we discussed if there's anything that you think is is really key
01:32:20
that you can dedicate a small team uh that puts a bit of effort to work on
01:32:25
yeah and not just discussing how sure decision making words in the world you know this we console
01:32:31
do you think i think from um the conference one is really reinforced
01:32:36
importance of knowledge trends but um i think we know last already about development and i think
01:32:43
a lot of the by six still not be in a downward deployed and uh
01:32:48
you know with the mike uh a framework role model on at the to kind of put it down in an overall
01:32:54
a plan in a corner a framework to to make sure that those sorts of important here is get get
01:33:01
it tended to decide how i would think that once we all ought to do is to still
01:33:07
uh have these educational taught modules uh
01:33:11
educational informational uh that hate the
01:33:15
you know the whole actually of the the pair the touch of the ass
01:33:18
late and you know what would be issue exercise wouldn't with these great
01:33:23
decide right let's put together the most important red flags
01:33:27
most important messages that we wanna wanna do
01:33:30
let's put package it up and some sort of the uh knowledgeable and make it available for it
01:33:35
very federation all have the weld it i could use it be something be very practical so
01:33:42
this is actually something on chong depended on on a trial by actually think that uh you know
01:33:46
at most small level doing that the this is a group such as
01:33:49
this could actually provide a leading base pratt does set all of
01:33:54
you know keeler any experience with educational experiences taking the point that you actually have
01:34:00
to deliver it sort of face to face to improve the impact but um
01:34:04
i think that we could pull that together that night that callable by local uh the beseech dip fall out of love to do that
01:34:12
thank you i'll get back to you on that if you just sort that out plus six plus mario i'm trying to
01:34:20
ah
01:34:23
yeah so um i will say take uh i take advantage of
01:34:29
the support unity this uh this project i yelled project uh
01:34:36
try to engage a interdisciplinary uh it it
01:34:39
changes uh we seem sporting federations
01:34:44
maybe begin here at the formal like that maybe latest this level so i think this
01:34:53
there are opportunities then that can be done that there are examples in other countries this can be done and then
01:35:01
in the your level each of us can do something so just the willingness to do something but for the larger features
01:35:09
that's it or you don't say that's neat and other colleagues you have to go through this with the regions
01:35:16
oh thank you and and looking at examples and uh in in
01:35:19
again a marker mentioned their urban legends uh about what happens
01:35:24
uh in other places and we need to know sort of what happened where it works
01:35:27
well we go back to the case studies i think and and not just replicate
01:35:31
oh or reinvent the wheel but just try to to and of course context so different so we need to look at some the content
01:35:38
design yeah because so we have to convince the states and there
01:35:43
and uh have a government e. uh buddies that uh we i say you like warm tone
01:35:51
doing what we're doing so uh we we have also to reach not only the children that also
01:35:56
the people who were involved how higher you know critic
01:36:02
uh
01:36:04
we'll have to keep rubbing and i think the media is i live and and and we were lucky to have the media yesterday and today it
01:36:10
today actually in in about an hour probably gonna show on national television to to than the few snippets of
01:36:17
our conference yesterday and and the debate yesterday so i think that's also an opportunity
01:36:22
oh to to act on that there's probably a lot of coaches a lot of stakeholders that
01:36:26
are outside of this room that i cannot see that maybe in switzerland for us
01:36:30
and and then we need to to maybe i can not quickly i think we need to use
01:36:34
the media in a in a smart way in trying to communicate as much as we can
01:36:40
well i'd like to to thank our panel and give him a big round of applause i know where
01:36:52
no no we will we get to a a very a quick close of the conference
01:37:00
and we still have the best uh abstract award in the last marco and suzanne
01:37:05
to come up here and to a hand the award of the best abstract
01:37:14
uh_huh
01:37:17
so we have three aspects that were presented and i would like to uh to announce the winner
01:37:32
oh to teach what do we know it's
01:37:36
yeah
01:37:38
yours if you honestly
01:37:47
yeah
01:37:52
thank you i again ah doors and the panel certainly for all of you
01:37:57
were fantastic contributions to this great event and to the scientific committee
01:38:03
i keep ha
01:38:08
hi
01:38:13
but it it just to have it be a religious to do for you
01:38:27
ah
01:38:32
thanks
01:38:34
okay it's so we also uh have
01:38:41
this will be the winner of the twitch the competition and i would like to ask uh
01:38:46
we'll just ah and the billy who were treating on behalf of the you have forum
01:38:54
and so they were keeping track of every treats out there and they've made a choice
01:39:05
oh everybody uh just pretty i wanted to describe the form country yeah we used to to the the best three
01:39:12
the first one was a number of decide scientific committee
01:39:15
worth or excluded uh from the contest so rivers
01:39:20
the second one was uh the uh the trade has
01:39:24
to deliver a key simple an important message
01:39:28
just so one was that we'd has to contain a a picture or grab to make more attractive
01:39:35
and the last one while trips will be written in english because we we trying to to
01:39:42
reach people who couldn't make it to to more true thirty two or to a really
01:39:50
and the winner isn't easy snipe yeah okay
01:40:00
i think i think like that
01:40:05
yeah in my opinion okay here's sexy i think your art
01:40:11
so if they were afraid that somebody misunderstood your
01:40:14
uh making graphic a sexy so then you you had to to comment uh would
01:40:19
you care to to expand on what you had to say on hold
01:40:23
how are you saying don't get me wrong i'm not saying this is easy and i
01:40:27
do tend to have some odd ideas but we do need to become more aware
01:40:35
what do you mean by making good effort directed ah um was quite boring i guess
01:40:41
to to care for athletes because everybody you know everything some one look after them
01:40:50
exam i i didn't expect this
01:40:55
just what is um syntax now ah i i
01:41:02
well thank you for good story with server but your remote for maybe the conference and help
01:41:15
good um it i would also like to thank the scientific committee very much and if uh if you could quickly
01:41:20
come up here so that we can acknowledge also the hard work of the scientific committee might think workload
01:41:25
please how if i can see i'm not sure what the other one
01:41:33
if they had to leave a parable milo yeah are you still hear
01:41:37
pair use not he get seasick himmler are you still here
01:41:43
no well suzy cream or you know about and mark were quite a no they basically uh my forgetting someone
01:41:49
no i think we're all that well thank you very much for organising and put together this conference
01:41:55
and uh it was great to end the uh last but not least uh i'd like
01:42:02
to thank all us because who travelled to come here and share the knowledge
01:42:06
and i will pass the last word to frederick kern the president of the organising

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Conference program

Welcome
Frederic Koehn, President Young Athletes Forum Foundation
21 Sept. 2017 · 1:18 p.m.
3,124 views
Opening address
Boris GOJANOVIC
21 Sept. 2017 · 1:22 p.m.
131 views
Biological Maturation and the Path to Success: Before and After the Fact
Manuel COELHO-E-SILVA, Biological Maturation and the Path to Success: Before and After the Fact
21 Sept. 2017 · 1:31 p.m.
549 views
Designing pathways to success – part kaleidoscope, part microscope
Jason GULBIN, Designing pathways to success – part kaleidoscope, part microscope
21 Sept. 2017 · 1:53 p.m.
372 views
Talent ID and Development: Why doing the “right thing” is not always the “best thing
Ross TUCKER , Talent ID and Development: Why doing the “right thing” is not always the “best thing
21 Sept. 2017 · 2:16 p.m.
332 views
104 views
Resistance training during long-term athlete development
Urs GRANACHER
21 Sept. 2017 · 2:52 p.m.
343 views
The development of aerobic power in young athletes
Grégoire MILLET
21 Sept. 2017 · 3:15 p.m.
1,462 views
Fueling the young athlete
Asker JEUKENDRUP
21 Sept. 2017 · 3:36 p.m.
193 views
Training young athletes: challenges and opportunities
Marco CARDINALE
21 Sept. 2017 · 4:01 p.m.
181 views
TRAINING THE YOUNG ATHLETE - Q&A
Panel
21 Sept. 2017 · 4:33 p.m.
Coaching from junior to the top of the world (Lara Gut)
Patrick Flaction, Elitment
21 Sept. 2017 · 5:20 p.m.
189 views
Knee ligament injuries in immature athletes
Franck CHOTEL
22 Sept. 2017 · 7:48 a.m.
Osteochondral lesions
Franck ACCADBLED
22 Sept. 2017 · 8:11 a.m.
216 views
INJURIES WITH THE ORTHOPEDISTS - Q&A
Panel
22 Sept. 2017 · 8:54 a.m.
Back pain in young athletes
Liba SHEERAN
22 Sept. 2017 · 9:34 a.m.
Long term sequelae of youth overuse injuries
Mark BATT
22 Sept. 2017 · 10:19 a.m.
OVERUSE INJURIES - Q&A
Panel
22 Sept. 2017 · 10:40 a.m.
Concussions in young athletes : myths and reality
Christopher NEWMAN
22 Sept. 2017 · 10:52 a.m.
Screening for heart disease in sports – nonsense or necessary?
Matthias WILHELM
22 Sept. 2017 · 11:16 a.m.
Competitive Sport & Health: hidden issues
Gordon MATHESON
22 Sept. 2017 · 12:04 p.m.
Injury prevention programs : The 11+ Kids Project
Mario BIZZINI
22 Sept. 2017 · 2:12 p.m.
104 views
158 views
Parents’ Knowledge of Sport Psychology and Nutrition
Dr Camilla J. Knight
22 Sept. 2017 · 3:57 p.m.
Closing Address
Frederic Koehn, President Young Athletes Forum Foundation
22 Sept. 2017 · 6:04 p.m.