Player is loading...

Embed

Embed code

Transcriptions

Note: this content has been automatically generated.
00:00:00
still few places uh available in from that but don't worry i won't uh
00:00:05
sully won't buy it but also won't confront you with questions uh directly you're curious that we uh
00:00:12
um the session of course doesn't sound like the most sexy of all sessions
00:00:17
right predatory conference's so um when i
00:00:24
spoke to a and e. hargreaves
00:00:27
you could be here but i don't know if you've been to is a session before in
00:00:31
the conference all uh is first reaction to look terminology predatory conferences was like this ah
00:00:39
so you know it's it's uh it seems to be quite some
00:00:42
controversial uh and as well as uh some uh yeah
00:00:49
as a certain also sexually subject um my name is we're trying to wants and i'm here to a moderate to session
00:00:56
about predatory conferences so it's it's serious and disturbing danger to
00:01:01
international association and their meetings what would do today sir
00:01:08
we wanna raise us about it would rules are very interested in what you think about what you know about it
00:01:14
and started off i would like to uh to actually drop your phone
00:01:19
or tablets and go to w. w. w. dot slide all dot com
00:01:29
it's up there actually i got instructions you i possibly you use it already in
00:01:36
a in a different section that's it and then hash back a car
00:01:43
and so if we come back to the presentation yeah my question is
00:01:50
uh_huh if you're going to to the room for to select the product eric compass is just a question of have you
00:01:58
who has heard of the term preparatory conference at least answer with yes or no in the at
00:02:06
uh_huh
00:02:10
you want to go back
00:02:16
okay it's slow and socks light was really fast so the the connection
00:02:22
is slow okay well who's got problems logging in for insurance
00:02:29
two okay
00:02:33
uh_huh
00:02:35
uh_huh
00:02:38
um
00:02:40
um
00:02:42
uh_huh
00:02:44
uh_huh got the let's move on and uh if you still logging on uh that's uh that's okay um
00:02:54
last year it kara rates uh uh if you were an s. of predatory conferences
00:03:02
it was mark rowan nor who present it's a session about it ends
00:03:08
concerning concerning about it they are why don't look around like always actually also doing research on
00:03:15
it and i found change because he did james was actually done that's probably seven
00:03:25
articles in media imprints on the subject done extensive research on better come just
00:03:33
i would have liked to have warm welcome for james to actually
00:03:38
give us more insights mitchell maybe more thoughts especially more awareness of what
00:03:43
actually or predator conferences and how you can recognise these asian jasmine
00:03:48
james across you from the bone tool if i can say greg die to think i university in japan do
00:04:02
thank you very much for the introduction and thank you very much
00:04:04
for coming so the title of my talkies predatory conference is
00:04:09
a serious and disturbing danger to international associations in their meetings i
00:04:14
it's a rhetorical question the answer is a definite yes
00:04:18
so today i want to do find things on going to define what is a pretty twenty conference
00:04:25
uh then i want to warn you how large the problem is and kind of explain how
00:04:30
we got into this situation and third i'm going to show you find red flags
00:04:36
that will help you identify a predatory conference from their website
00:04:42
a fourth i'm going to describe the danger uh to you in the industry and then finally
00:04:49
i'm going to ask for your participation and discuss ways that we can address the problem
00:04:57
um up but before i begin i want to say i set myself
00:05:01
a little bit an extra challenge when preparing my powerpoint presentation
00:05:06
and i decided to take only examples of predatory conference is there are being held in prague
00:05:13
and the reason i chose products not trying tarnish the reputation of a lovely city
00:05:18
but i want to show you any really drive the point home these things are
00:05:23
taking place everywhere and all the time i so what is a predatory conference
00:05:32
i think it consists of three elements on number one it's
00:05:36
a low quality academic meeting held primarily to make
00:05:40
money with no real interest in supporting scholarship a number
00:05:47
two there is a lack of peer review
00:05:50
and this allows anyone to make a presentation alright you know read most academic fields
00:05:57
a conference is have a border volunteers review proposals they rate
00:06:02
them and the conference can choose the best in
00:06:05
a predatory then this doesn't take place anybody who pays
00:06:09
can play uh_huh and finally and perhaps most important
00:06:16
they employ some type of deceit are the most common deceit being are thinking peer review
00:06:23
but they'll also lie about their to headquarters location they try and conceal the to ownership
00:06:30
what they hide the fact that it's a for profit company
00:06:35
or one of the most famous repertory companies are the
00:06:39
i. t. life started in two thousand and three it's one of the oldest uh by two thousand and thirteen
00:06:46
uh the problem had grown large enough that it started attracting
00:06:50
attention from the new york times higher in other magazines
00:06:54
today i think predatory conference's outnumber authentic scholarly events are
00:07:00
at least in terms of total number of conferences
00:07:03
uh in terms of total attendees i i would not feel so
00:07:06
confident uh making backlit but they're everywhere i for example there
00:07:15
are two companies that are holding predatory events in prague every month
00:07:20
or a quick look at one more conference solar website
00:07:25
and just from companies that i know one site i found twenty five more predatory conferences
00:07:31
uh being held in prague in two thousand seventeen i'm
00:07:35
actually terribly names i can't remember means very well
00:07:39
so there must be a lot more about being held for
00:07:47
example we have probably the three most famous art
00:07:51
wall holding events uh in prague in two thousand seventeen and they're going to hold them again next year
00:07:58
c. r. b. i. t. group global a. k. a. it congress a.
00:08:03
k. a. b. life sciences a. k. a. world high technology society
00:08:08
uh has one company name becomes known as predatory they'll change the name or number
00:08:14
two uh one of the largest claims three thousand conference's here is all next
00:08:20
a. k. a. et cetera et cetera et cetera uh they regularly change
00:08:24
their branding and then we have number three uh one sec
00:08:29
uh if you could remember these three names there's gonna be a quiz later on t. v.
00:08:38
uh for example uh what's it events in prague every month uh oh what
00:08:48
so we have march they need to take a poll off because they're holding a special event in may twenty fifth my birthday i
00:08:56
then june july august september and so on
00:09:01
at each of these monthly events they're claiming to hold three hundred and twenty conference's
00:09:08
now from what i've experienced of last set conference's they're typically ten people
00:09:13
in the smallest hotel conference room giving talks to each other on completely different topics
00:09:19
are in many ways that the old school a predatory organised or
00:09:24
and i think the only reason they survive is because it's a two person operation
00:09:29
uh it's a former teacher and his daughter so predatory conference companies they start small
00:09:38
and here we have a then a few months ago in prague with only for attendees
00:09:44
but the problem is they grow larger and some of them reached the top of the food chain
00:09:49
and maybe come the apex predators and you have the the i.
00:09:53
t. congress in beijing which had hundreds of other attendees
00:10:00
i pretended to predatory conference that had five hundred uh presenters
00:10:04
and so has to grow larger degree more sophisticated
00:10:10
uh they've become so large that there be able to
00:10:14
pay nobel prize winners the common give keynote address
00:10:19
alright in all mixes k.'s they've gone on a buying
00:10:22
spree of legitimate academic publishers in canada and of
00:10:27
conference organising companies in europe and then they're using these names of for that you're gonna see uh_huh
00:10:36
there's also a conference alert website it's now devoted entirely
00:10:40
to predatory conference's were almost entirely to predatory conference
00:10:44
uh the company that made this website seems to special
00:10:47
lies in creating the web sites for predatory competence
00:10:51
and then it created a conference of our website uh_huh
00:10:58
so how did the problem grows so large
00:11:02
there was really a perfect storm where it became easy enough to create a
00:11:07
legitimate looking website but before academics really knew that this was a problem
00:11:13
um and so you had this kind of perfect storm in an explosion in growth
00:11:22
uh there's in the background to this out there's we'll
00:11:27
cracks in the foundation of the ivory tower
00:11:30
uh there's more and more researchers chasing fewer and fewer full time positions
00:11:35
and so the desperate are willing to pad their
00:11:38
c. d.'s with these predatory conference uh publications
00:11:44
are any any way to get a lake up in the job part
00:11:51
are another problem is academics around the world are required to
00:11:56
present and publish in english at international conference it's
00:12:01
uh for example in taiwan the government requires all graduate
00:12:06
students to make a english international conference presentation
00:12:11
a day then require a taiwanese university professors to be hired
00:12:16
him from oh did you need additional international conference presentations
00:12:22
the problem is they didn't conference rejection rates can be as high as eighty five percent
00:12:27
um now taiwan will pay graduate students and the academics
00:12:33
to go overseas to present at these conferences
00:12:37
now that means there's a huge market in predatory companies are meeting the demand
00:12:45
but it's not just the developing world problem a lot of people
00:12:49
seem to blame non english speaking countries that's not the case
00:12:54
uh last summer i did a magazine article about
00:12:58
canadian universities that were hired a hosting
00:13:02
predatory conference's last month i was interviewed by two reporters one doing a story about u.
00:13:08
k. academics and the other about canadian academics were presenting at these territory conferences
00:13:17
so if you're english or your scholarship is not up to
00:13:22
give a thirty minute talk at a real conference
00:13:26
you can pay extra and presented a predatory conference that might be only five minutes long
00:13:33
so next i want to show you how to spot a predatory conference would denies there
00:13:39
in is natural habitat which is the world wide web uh_huh and we have red flag number one
00:13:47
asking presenters to pay more i see of these connected companies academics world r. x.
00:13:53
cetera et cetera there holding monthly meetings in prague now you we have
00:14:02
the two hundred and ninety seven if international conference on management
00:14:07
which is an incredible achievement considering the company was founded in two thousand and fourteen
00:14:15
now they have authors paying somewhere between three hundred and fifty in four hundred us dollars
00:14:23
but the listeners the audience only pays two hundred and
00:14:26
thirty dollars heart it's not standard tract is to
00:14:30
ask the academics providing the content to pay more for the privilege this is red flag number one
00:14:38
uh additional red flags are additional papers for additional money
00:14:44
if you need three conference publications for your promotion you could do it
00:14:48
all in one day if you're willing to pay the money
00:14:52
and another warning sign is this additional page
00:14:56
fee of thirty us dollars per page
00:15:00
on that four hundred dollars buys you find pages in the conference proceedings
00:15:06
uh which is incredibly short for academic a publication if you wanna get it
00:15:11
up to the standard fifteen twenty page length you have to pay more
00:15:21
right side number two is having an overly broad scope
00:15:25
yeah we had the european conference on science which is already too wide to be of
00:15:30
interest to any serious academic but then they're tacking on science art and culture um
00:15:38
they're combining a hundred in three different fields into a six
00:15:43
single conference and if you look at the eighties
00:15:48
you can see how the topics don't match at all
00:15:53
we have hands here x. science advertising architecture i
00:15:58
grow tourism all happening in the same room
00:16:05
right thank number two is combining conference's together so he we have that
00:16:10
here is the name to scientific federation and abode for researchers
00:16:16
and they're holding three conferences at the same time i next year i suspect in the same hotel room
00:16:23
how are they different topics right right in engineering natural chemistry and bile polymers
00:16:30
now we're not but it date because a few days later
00:16:36
october twenty second twenty third october twenty fifth and twenty
00:16:40
six three more events on three wildly different topics
00:16:46
uh and this is standard practised you'll go into the city or country
00:16:50
and hold as many advances possible to pay for your airfare
00:16:54
oh and to make as much money as you can see a red flag number three is using
00:17:04
a fake were misleading office address are they used to be they would use post office boxes
00:17:12
but now virtual offices uh is more standard what they don't get any address on the
00:17:17
website at all and it's just age email for contacts so here we have america's
00:17:23
what makes international located at seven three one call haven't you foster city
00:17:28
california it letter doubt year the address just use google mounts
00:17:34
this is seventy one got have a new very nice property it seems to be for sale if you fancy it
00:17:42
now we we can kinda laugh at this uh but this is just an oversight on all mixes part
00:17:48
they haven't updated their website in awhile they've now become large enough that they're
00:17:52
paying for virtual offices and a half dozen countries around the world
00:18:02
no red flag number four is holding the same events in multiple countries
00:18:06
so what's that claims to hold the same conference in forty one cities throughout the year
00:18:12
including prague and if you've got a busy schedule don't worry they have their event schedule out the twenty three
00:18:20
uh_huh double telling everything they had double tell booked apparently uh_huh
00:18:28
and we have a final red flag which is selling virtual presentations so
00:18:34
here we have virtual registration for three hundred and fifty us dollars
00:18:39
and your virtual presentation is really just you up loading your powerpoint slides to a
00:18:45
web site that nobody except me is ever going to look at it
00:18:50
now why would anyone pay three hundred and fifty dollars to do this because from
00:18:55
the conference proceedings you cannot tell who attended the conference in gabriel paper
00:19:01
and who paid and just uploaded the powerpoint slides from the proceedings it's the same when
00:19:06
you listed on your resume it's the same so this is for the truly desperate
00:19:13
so what's the problem well one big problem is it wastes medical researchers time and money
00:19:21
um but if you do attend event researchers are very embarrassed and they don't wanna talk about it
00:19:28
and so nobody ever finds out it's a problem and it just kind of continues
00:19:36
it enables the promotion of junk science or pseudo science
00:19:41
alright in predatory conference land climate change doesn't
00:19:44
exist nine eleven was an inside job
00:19:48
eights was not caused by each i. d. a.s is
00:19:52
caused by united nations to limit the world's population
00:19:56
uh these are all conference presentations at predatory conferences
00:20:02
so anything goes uh_huh and the enable unethical researchers
00:20:08
to purchase presentations and publications required for promotion
00:20:11
uh i'm old one of the few good things about growing old is having ten year
00:20:17
but i would not want to be a young researcher trying to do a job hunt
00:20:21
in competing against the people willing to stack the resin meetings with these predatory publications
00:20:30
and unfortunately this is something that that makes academics don't wanna talk about
00:20:36
but the enable unethical researchers to take chunk it's pretty much
00:20:40
anywhere anytime they paid for it with their research budget
00:20:44
uh there's a reason why hawaii bally in bangkok or
00:20:48
some of the most popular predatory conference destinations
00:20:56
now this is kind of the academic problem but it's a problem for you too
00:21:01
art the danger to the industry is they're not small in amateurish anymore
00:21:06
they're big in their polished and they're competing directly with legitimate
00:21:11
events are to given example for my own life
00:21:14
i'm involved with helping organise what used to be the light just language teacher conference
00:21:19
in japan i used to be the biggest and most important in asia
00:21:24
we're now down to about a hundred overseas attendees on we
00:21:28
just can't compete with all the other events out there
00:21:33
uh they'll hijacked the names of conferences and you're going to
00:21:38
hear later about how they hijacked an entire website
00:21:43
so which is the legion in digit conference entomology dash two
00:21:47
thousand thirteen went to marty comes out thirteen um some
00:21:52
legitimate uh professors couldn't tell they went to the wrong one uh the first one is the fake one
00:22:01
and finally predatory conference organisers are beginning to prey on government
00:22:07
mice money n. c. d. sub sized conference ever subsidies
00:22:11
i know for a fact in japan predatory conference's are
00:22:15
getting government money and that means less for you
00:22:21
uh there's other dangers are your rescue reputation when getting involved with predatory organisers
00:22:27
do you want your conference enter in the news as the event that hosted a whole customer
00:22:35
the conference is there sometimes cancelled at the last minute order cancelled without any warning at all
00:22:41
uh i attended event in tokyo and myself and for other people would come from
00:22:46
overseas all waited vainly and there was no conference backed there's never anybody fonts
00:22:53
uh you can just present later at a different conference organised by the same company
00:23:00
uh and some partway companies list five star hotels on the website
00:23:04
um and then i'll switch the event location at the last minute i'll last set quite often does this
00:23:12
uh_huh uh_huh and the unwary might may find themselves partners
00:23:19
you have to be i tease me again my birthday at second conference
00:23:23
just on my birthday uh held in prague to supporting organisation
00:23:27
is claims to be a to check tourism department does check tourism no i give it a fifty fifty chance
00:23:35
uh if they did get fooled they shouldn't feel ashamed about it or
00:23:40
not but this company fools nobel prize winners they're in good company
00:23:44
but i also know that get life that's to just steal logos and stick them on the website um
00:23:52
or the mere act of responding to any email sent to you by them gives them the
00:23:59
impression that you're there supporting organisation and then they'll put your your logo on the website
00:24:06
so what can we do um there's a few ideas i have but
00:24:12
really i want you to provide most of the the ideas
00:24:15
the problem is this issue has been building for a decade
00:24:20
it's going to take a lot longer than that to address it so there's no easy fix
00:24:28
i'm still and me east at how many universities eye contact hotels and
00:24:33
academics and they all claim that nobody's heard of predatory conferences
00:24:38
uh so where it is still needs to be raised but i don't know how much louder i can shout
00:24:44
so hopefully when we discuss this problem in your groups you can think of ways that we can raise awareness
00:24:52
now some people think we just make a blacklist we get all check
00:24:57
it wall solve the problem in in that happily ever after
00:25:01
the problem is as soon as you come up with a blacklist
00:25:04
the companies change their names it also takes an incredible amount
00:25:09
of time money and effort and lawyers to create a blacklist um i've written
00:25:17
seven articles i've only been threatened with a lawsuit so far um
00:25:24
i think one way you could maybe create a workable blacklist is just making a list of the top ten
00:25:31
our company's kind of a ten most unwanted list that's
00:25:35
a possibility i'll wait list perhaps as more promise
00:25:41
um by one issue you'll have to address is as soon as you realise your criteria
00:25:48
what black what white the companies will go and change their websites and make themselves look clean
00:25:54
uh i wrote my first newspaper story uh in may
00:25:58
two thousand sixteen i mentioned a half dozen companies
00:26:02
find this six have all made substantial changes to their website
00:26:07
and it would be much harder alright to identify them as predatory anymore
00:26:12
um ironically the more i write about it the more the predatory companies learn and the harder it is to spot them
00:26:21
i think we might also think the way the pressure detriment to change policies
00:26:26
also for example the taiwanese government really has to rethink the
00:26:30
way they're funding that graduate students to present internationally
00:26:34
uh no b. i. t. life claims to have the
00:26:38
support of several chinese government offices on the website
00:26:42
ah if they in fact have this support i think it must stop
00:26:47
if they don't have this support and they have to be pressured to take those logos
00:26:52
off the website or in us say you have the federal trade commission uh
00:26:59
there's the complaint address there currently suing all next
00:27:03
well uh for this deceptive trade pact this is and they're using all next are as an example
00:27:10
uh but they've stated that they don't want to try and take on every predatory company we're
00:27:15
just gonna use or next as a test case but that's in us say ah
00:27:20
maybe in your country you have us a similar setup that you can get them to pressure
00:27:26
the conference organisers in their country so the last thing i'm going to do art is kind of ask if
00:27:35
you have any questions but i think we're gonna do it on you know a little bit different way
00:27:41
ah i teach in japan japan the students never wanna raise their hair and and so i
00:27:45
think what we're gonna do is have you use your mobile phone to write some questions
00:27:51
but i think we'll get some explanation across the nation doesn't thank you
00:27:59
um about alice james to jen to sit down a actually a panel discussion
00:28:06
if we're gonna start i'm gonna fight some more people for that
00:28:09
and we want to really start the discussion downstairs on the floor if you would feels
00:28:14
like quite a big gap um before we going to uh the
00:28:20
interaction with you i would like to invite the panelists
00:28:24
first and uh also for the first opinion so if we could we pull back to do your presentation again
00:28:32
i i would like to us to the panel day free traffic car
00:28:37
from your penis church organisation for research and treatment of cancer
00:28:42
please come to the panel thank you have a saudi rots
00:28:47
emanate from the world association for psycho social rehabilitation
00:28:52
thank you and no ami time it's from the regional director asia pacific it car
00:28:58
thank you i'm just the first actually your first comment to presentation daffy
00:29:07
please
00:29:08
well this this is probably i mean we we do so many congresses we
00:29:13
have sent me on sees and these me scenes are competing mm
00:29:20
but what i was surprised about from you presentation was
00:29:25
the fact that the sages are actually submitting
00:29:28
sees competencies and it's to gain mm get to gain then
00:29:34
use it to increasing references on yeah on c. d.'s
00:29:40
which i find this to be up until now everybody said uh everybody's given academics the benefit of the doubt
00:29:46
uh i can't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore some of the website
00:29:51
some of the conference's it'll amateurish that you must know what you're getting into
00:29:56
if you submit your a proposal i got a proposal accepted in under four hours
00:30:04
i submitted at supper time before i went to bed i received except it's no any
00:30:09
academic that would get acceptance that fast we know that there's a serious problem
00:30:15
um by that conference was for what i what i what about use only
00:30:22
i think so i'm agree with james in terms of all the points
00:30:26
mission but uh i want to restrict my palm is through
00:30:30
medical psychotic associations that are involved in this process some psychiatrists them
00:30:36
but we voting on the position of number of conferences
00:30:39
but the first thing i really want to point out is that this differs from crowded country
00:30:45
in some countries that could actually appear to be legitimate but of course james's
00:30:49
point about the ways of picking those but the free goes about realistic
00:30:55
we we have a problem for reasons is sort of a cover come from where the national association of psychiatrists would
00:31:02
organise meetings the young meetings every two years in between
00:31:06
the the small loan you also is meetings becomes
00:31:10
what the privy to assess issues do you specifically to money
00:31:15
to know what the national association of the room
00:31:17
and the look at the themes most of the what are the most
00:31:20
important topic stuff but we feel that national association people douglas
00:31:26
and then we'll collect a team of experts now here's the problem which in something 'cause referred to
00:31:31
they'll take the same scientists all leading experts from the national
00:31:35
association use the upshot some good legitimately petition for this
00:31:40
is my close by the whole professions consul sort of because so you you cannot see them of the go
00:31:46
they have a you obstruct them obstruct the view stuff but if it is from is put on terms
00:31:52
but then so the participants are members of us also shouldn't assume this is a very good
00:31:57
conference that but that's go mow the underlying problem is that we have to good
00:32:04
continuing medical education points uh via at least an average of
00:32:09
fifty points for general knowledge about ten points what epics
00:32:14
you may find that when you attended the most on conference you didn't get all
00:32:17
the points so before into the one to get the points from somewhere else
00:32:23
because of the formal legitimate but we didn't buy this uh um visions of
00:32:28
but we offer those points but it if your sports this mission buttons
00:32:32
and secondly uh they will choose exalted values and also the gospels
00:32:37
can come in that would be more charges and so on but but
00:32:40
this particular be charged in the registration fee but too pretty
00:32:45
but in addition uh i'm not so sure what it's like to different from what
00:32:48
seems that the presenters the leading experts uh paid a lot of money
00:32:54
but is they don't pay registration fee the input
00:32:57
is obstruct switches legitimate baseline doesn't reclusive but
00:33:01
they don't pay the money that i paid a lot of money the palm imprisoned
00:33:05
um those conferences usually happen over weekends to this is sort
00:33:10
of but then they also evening meetings with uh
00:33:13
you know practitioners available and the so we can attend you know if it's a two hour meeting
00:33:18
is on if we give so many points now we we have a problem the because
00:33:23
you have a membership but is viewed to a number of
00:33:27
interesting but not to much knowledge i mean meetings
00:33:32
what do you say to a membership is the most decision secondly you have this experts who are really prompted
00:33:39
but these associations your limits but you're part of a much more sensitive but
00:33:43
at the same time someone says i'll give you two thousand euro
00:33:47
for forty minutes due to should be refused to take that if you know i mean these other things that i
00:33:52
want to put to the audience or to respond to because we're dealing with the figures within budget to miss
00:33:59
it is very popular legs and then what i do you say as well is that sometimes these don't seem to have a choice because we need to
00:34:05
get a points yes and that is that in that time slot maybe the
00:34:08
only place to get them exactly okay let's move on to know
00:34:13
um personally i like bang i'm james for pointing out of and finding to us what is the the
00:34:20
tory meeting um i believe this phenomenon has a profound effect not only to the economic will
00:34:27
oh i'm also to local commons supply us a commission bureaus because uh eventually
00:34:33
um the main objective is to to get money from for profit from all these
00:34:38
uh economics but eventually do make more money of from yourself mention plan
00:34:43
um i think that's the whole idea all four and this is moving fast and the more that we track of the
00:34:49
more new things are they will do um as you all know that you at the car we do research
00:34:54
and we do need and and we social this position meetings and no workstation database
00:34:59
we have more them um eleven thousand is decision that we track initialisation every track
00:35:05
and we about twenty thousand international association meeting all the nice my one up on on occasion basis
00:35:12
um the problem becoming more and more big uh uh because um is how the
00:35:18
host to identify uh we should reflect this gentlemen and we she's not
00:35:23
and one do you all good you know especially if you put all the terminology
00:35:28
um we have about seven messages now in asia pacific obviously being global research
00:35:33
and and as a gym has pointed out the three companies that yes hi like
00:35:37
that i was set a or mix and um the ideal life sciences
00:35:42
to all the company she's b. i. t. v.s piece in china and what needs to be seen india
00:35:47
um we are checking that tracking not so much to say that um what you're doing is right or wrong but
00:35:54
because we are very concerned because we have the organising hundreds of meetings
00:35:59
and someone meetings might really easily can be detected to be to
00:36:02
be looks fake meeting but not others can be very
00:36:06
huge anyway you know how do you you you tell you of fig louis
00:36:10
tone energy you don't you you don't have a week long at all
00:36:14
to the host childish always such a yeah i'm about i think what i understand and i'm really happy
00:36:20
that you're you're from the association side because uh um obviously we're all here is our clients
00:36:26
um and uh concerning the expressing a concern and i can understand now or even after
00:36:32
a change presentation and the additional information it's it's really complicated it's really complicated to
00:36:39
uh to cross plates and the and also maybe you have some questions
00:36:45
after this information i would like to invite you to discuss in small groups what questions you have to the panel
00:36:52
and for use again the word slide over that um let me have
00:36:57
a look we already have some questions anonymous questions that's great
00:37:01
uh and also op photo it's let's see so all can use you
00:37:10
some series of valuable conference maybe organised for fries of companies how
00:37:14
can we identify them and not come fountain of parameters
00:37:20
once ah so that
00:37:23
shapes my i think used um as being against
00:37:28
for profit conference's uh i'm really not
00:37:32
i think the best way to tell the difference is those three elements are
00:37:39
especially the deceit about it for a conference is going to
00:37:43
lie about something uh and it's usually the location
00:37:48
so if you just to go their what their address see if it's a real car uh really dress or not
00:37:56
yeah that that's one easy way on the other way is that the structure of predatory conference is either
00:38:04
gonna be up i should say there's actually no to uh trends in the pricing of predatory conferences
00:38:11
medical conference's have traditionally been more expensive uh i'm
00:38:15
in applied linguistics i've always found that
00:38:18
fees other medical conference a really high like a thousand dollars is not unusual
00:38:24
right it were conference's are now under cutting those high prices beginning abiding disco
00:38:31
in the social sciences other prices have traditionally been just a few hundred dollars
00:38:36
but acceptance is much more difficult so predatory conference is probably twice the price
00:38:42
so if you look at the conference c. n. from your experience is
00:38:46
it too high or too low that'll give you another real clue
00:38:52
no i i would just like to add and this is more for for him sensations if
00:38:56
if they're on medicaid education and companies that right now on
00:39:01
it will be nice and conference's organising seen those yeah
00:39:04
and and and most and you can tell if if they oh and it's a
00:39:09
good not because you know you will know who the speaker is all
00:39:13
because you know of of reasonable quality you would know it
00:39:17
if a big speeches you can do you can see
00:39:21
mm where they are and and and in that way uh you know
00:39:26
'cause you know some mm websites where you have these speeches in
00:39:30
i i get sam my uh my committee members of the board with it
00:39:35
well uh my senior leadership contact and say oh look this conference is come
00:39:40
that you know is is is is is is a real conference
00:39:43
and then i look at this week isn't isn't good topics look okay but then
00:39:47
you look at the speeches i'd lose be visible nothing to do with anything
00:39:52
and if you have a look at the references i look at the publications they're not really the the high top
00:39:57
people so what what what if what what the you're just saying that to get a nobel prize winner
00:40:05
well yeah i mean it's becoming more difficult to tell yeah that's all of us like that that your mobile right or not
00:40:13
whether they be mobile press release on board yet if i'm not yeah i don't i
00:40:17
don't know the prize when is very to i i know from experience they
00:40:22
they are they are coming by paris o. an invitation and
00:40:27
it has to be up by some of the peas
00:40:29
so then you know if it is if they didn't put a nobel prize in it i would be a bit tedious
00:40:37
i think there's a a really complex issue for instance comics ravages systems internationally
00:40:44
we have a a a well developed a general topic into most approaches
00:40:50
but we vote or partly the journal was a particular printable company
00:40:56
only to find the the general successful or makes a face
00:41:01
but to go with the demo and it's only about one but we really was the demo was lying
00:41:06
to the simple one makes a move this button so that was an element of deceive the
00:41:11
but what what complicates life it's a also how we
00:41:14
protect our data or membership data in associations because
00:41:19
the advertisement to the conference will be to one of us on the web sort of
00:41:23
the muslim association how to access the data you know that would even know yo
00:41:29
office of us all the details and so on and in the pursuit of phone you attending of
00:41:35
the remind you so it was all from so they have access to the the time
00:41:39
um and and people who uh multiple giving this digits read the last point i
00:41:43
want to mention about complex does that uh some other people realise this conferences
00:41:49
oh from highly accredited universities professional organisations
00:41:55
and so you want to close the the only to reverse that and would do this was
00:41:59
a quick money making scheme another question is what advice we give most most decisions
00:42:06
and members of those associations to protect themselves reduced been cheated but such organisations
00:42:13
i have a question to the audience uh do you know where to get the
00:42:16
least of all these uh what we call the fake meeting or she meetings
00:42:22
right
00:42:24
so it's
00:42:30
well there was to be keeping your page but at least was discontinued maybe if you
00:42:35
things the this was actually predatory publishers exactly
00:42:39
which with the beginning predatory journal started
00:42:43
and then i started to realise it could make money from conference's um
00:42:48
that this was taken down ah i believe due to a a loss and
00:42:54
i think we can members you have the advantage because you can tell the least you remember section
00:43:00
of from last year's compressed that we had uh one of the um the thing
00:43:04
that we have done is we have publish um so called black please
00:43:08
for your reference but again like jim is mentioned the minute you publish this lease this it will be very creative
00:43:16
the window is not you will make available of in the public domain people
00:43:20
can always get changes so quickly i could you couldn't answer the
00:43:24
second question what a piece of perjury compresses counting to the bigger statistic
00:43:28
reporting definitely not okay this well we are very strict uh we
00:43:32
it's not only about the the you know rotation country countries more than fifty delegates
00:43:37
uh what what what it is we had we not have to
00:43:39
identify with this but going meetings organised by legitimate decision
00:43:44
that's where we you come to check of you've seen so many times especially like um um the i. t.
00:43:50
for example body with people call the conference the i.
00:43:53
p. o. will congress uh what kinds of congress
00:43:58
yeah you'll be held the muscle in january and you check out the the the the association website
00:44:05
maybe we find out they will uh has uh congress's hell somewhere
00:44:09
else without tool congress of cancer happenings in time to
00:44:14
definitely always social also to has to do double work to ensure that uh we're putting only
00:44:19
oh i'm meeting all the nice by the national association that legitimate one
00:44:23
unit unit up abuse okay well thank speaking of research uh
00:44:26
i also look at the uh to which is not a second question is to just to verify that circumference alert page
00:44:33
a new lease fake offices occurrence yeah the decoder conference other talk on if
00:44:38
your academic if you want to go to a conference next year october
00:44:43
work there's a specific c. d. you want to go to you know you can search for
00:44:47
conferences to and there's lots of these websites that one every conference i put that
00:44:52
is from a predatory company out all the conference's seem to
00:44:56
be ah artwork companies and that is where we use
00:45:02
for marketing purposes websites like that not that one but we use ma where
00:45:07
we put our conference is so then maybe some legitimate compass is
00:45:11
on on these websites is there's a few that i know conference alerts
00:45:16
dot com conference alert talk call ah one is better than the other and
00:45:23
okay thanks um i'll move on to the uh to the question that's um
00:45:29
this is a significant impact indigo destination ranking pros if the
00:45:33
city right just as many of these predatory compresses
00:45:38
was he could doing to address this
00:45:41
um recently by me um we had a a member this mission a c. v.
00:45:47
that come back that is that that you wanted to all the meeting that have
00:45:49
just push that to be listed in the ecosystem education not obese simply because
00:45:55
they uh they have given some engine to the to this big conferences i think
00:45:59
is quite normal enough once you put in uh use your some pension
00:46:03
uh you you you think that this meeting use all the nice white legitimate uses decision
00:46:08
and many receive the least uh to the uh and will some machine that you gave you
00:46:12
when your your ranking toward you want to have more meetings listed in your destination
00:46:17
or maybe look at least two people meeting it is clearly all the nice via figure goodness uh i'm pretty good at uh
00:46:22
do wonders but by b. i. t. life sciences and when we when we went back tell them that this is not
00:46:29
oh a legitimate conference and you would not we don't have the base
00:46:32
to the the members get upset because because first they have spend
00:46:35
money and how can we go back to the our local city don't want to say that we have lost a fake meeting
00:46:42
so you know we had a long composition more emails flying back and forth
00:46:46
you say that uh the openness that has been looking movie out
00:46:49
look to use these avoided professors know that is a legitimate conference we had a two hundred attendees
00:46:55
m. m. o. while you in you got to say that this is a fig conference
00:47:00
so it sounds like at least a day job but it got to actually attract lisa it's uh it's become a big um
00:47:08
what about the uh the question of can anyone facing the predatory conference anyone who pays the money
00:47:15
yeah you can get if you pay the money you don't you don't just have to visit you can own present
00:47:20
so you could become a doctor someone saw a world famous academic
00:47:25
about about a seven eight years ago us remember when i first joined you go oh the company on
00:47:30
mixing in yeah i'm the oldest conferences and in some
00:47:34
of the compresses website they have the colonial
00:47:39
and i i personally receive calls from the mission from c. long car new zealand
00:47:44
these are all researchers who wanted to attend the congress of uh and you want to get people to publish
00:47:51
and kentucky car because you call little was there and you say that uh we got nothing
00:47:56
to do with this particular organisation and that is not how we're real expertise at all
00:48:01
but imagine decide who's the researchers trying to get funding from the our local coleman to attend international conferences
00:48:08
and by paying two hundred us dollars to get a people publish less with less than two weeks
00:48:14
how many weeks normally james if people get published how long would it take
00:48:18
you know take some once for real conference academics as well yeah uh_huh
00:48:25
okay have you ever been to a a factory conference that i i've been to a
00:48:28
few value of interview and having no not me thirty years i have them
00:48:36
you discover afterwards afterwards is okay so that's so you are valid it
00:48:42
experience expert um the due to rapid
00:48:47
reputable uh universes know about their
00:48:50
trend about this trend and do they have a role in
00:48:53
preventing it or universities at the largest well in preventing
00:48:57
anything i'll they do most of them no i still come
00:49:01
across universities that claim not to know um uh
00:49:06
ally universities just don't wanna have to deal with it
00:49:10
uh it's very difficult touchy subject um there's the
00:49:15
idea that there's black and there's grey
00:49:19
operator conferences and that it's a range of of what i found a black conference
00:49:25
is a conference that somebody you don't know is gone to if
00:49:29
it's somebody they you know worth it's a conference when to
00:49:33
yourself well then it's a little bit grey and we don't know if we can really call up a toy or not
00:49:38
um some universities are taking the lead but they're making lists of conference's
00:49:44
their academics can attend um i'd like to see more of that
00:49:49
really what has to be done is when you're getting promoted are hired to have to look at this list
00:49:54
carefully and just putting x. through all the ones that
00:49:57
are predatory along with that comes a fulltime job
00:50:02
also i think am i think also you know we need to the accreditation and
00:50:07
the fact that you know this this is something way in the eighties
00:50:11
in most countries know who countries most countries need to have a presentation to
00:50:16
be able to to keep track to see if you adopt it
00:50:20
and and i think you know they should be a way
00:50:23
of uh of uh accreditation bodies being able to this
00:50:28
the this oh oh say that these conferences come from these organisations
00:50:33
with these medical agencies we ah we we on these or justifiable
00:50:38
so that people can go and have a low the nice to the substantial database that people can
00:50:44
uh_huh uh who don't see to see images to know but if you have one would say
00:50:50
face it and how do you how can you make that uh okay make them aware of your so many universes i guess
00:50:58
yeah i mean it would we in its up it should be part of the accredited says mm
00:51:05
mm mission because of the commission ease the presentation musically say should
00:51:10
from its national forty it's not actual body should be one
00:51:13
providing information national body which one favourite ya adjust things that this
00:51:18
kid's remote computer because universities wanted to publish or perish
00:51:24
and we don't uh we want to publish mo i think uh if they're
00:51:29
good researcher would look at the the list of um peer reviewed journals
00:51:34
accredited journals and so on images of me during the term of that's the
00:51:39
to put accept of his publication sometimes at the very very movie
00:51:45
what happens is that at the end of the the it is the research oh oh
00:51:49
who suffers because the base will say we cannot accept this we cannot give you points cannot score you how yeah
00:51:56
you published in a mom attributed journal or of a moan purely
00:52:00
region of so so that that is really a problem
00:52:03
but that is an accreditation list by universities of about thing i
00:52:08
want to to maybe is to educate members of of
00:52:11
it assesses the market remains to be careful about whether one
00:52:14
person limited up where they want to participate okay so
00:52:19
but don't come to um there's another question is that the i just read something about destination yeah what
00:52:25
so what is the biggest threat for destination hosting a predatory conference
00:52:31
maybe it can come for you also maybe from the audience
00:52:35
or simply we're from destinations coverage right
00:52:39
quite a few does anybody want to comment to this one
00:52:43
scott opinion
00:52:46
oh
00:52:48
to to get together please state your name yeah my name is pass from them from copenhagen and then
00:52:54
we have the asset open icing one hundred conferences next
00:52:59
year and the same date and small hotel
00:53:02
and i think that that was that actually an article that this
00:53:06
is the same thing happening faster in copenhagen uh think
00:53:10
and when people come to copenhagen for perjury conference they get that eh
00:53:16
view of copenhagen as a conference city so that's that
00:53:20
for us so we would rather not have them
00:53:25
questions like how can we we do that but i think it's it looks bad for us as well as the city
00:53:33
they're going to hotel you saying don't they they put a hotel i've actually i found one last
00:53:38
year uh i didn't know it was hundred conferences i just found one and it looked
00:53:43
decay cycle the hotel is it no no we have a booking we
00:53:47
have a meeting and they did have a meeting but it was
00:53:50
that was twenty people and they thought they would uh it's
00:53:54
in in twenty different conferences i see the hotels now
00:53:59
i don't think so no because they have that looking at the booking is paid for it they have a
00:54:04
meeting they get to to get people sleep at the hotels so for the hotels not a problem
00:54:10
okay so but we're so forward for done market is a problem for corporate i i think it's a
00:54:15
problem from copenhagen and in uh the larger picture i think it's also a problem for the menu
00:54:20
because they also get that reputation but i think we need to talk to
00:54:24
them about it and make them aware about what is this that yeah
00:54:29
yeah and then you for okay thank you very much better than anybody else from a destination want to come into this
00:54:46
good afternoon everybody and then he never mentioned from the commission do uh
00:54:51
just wanted to say that was set that you just mentioned before
00:54:55
um as far as i know there have been called now
00:54:58
passes internationals although they change the name okay that's for
00:55:02
that's a that's a long time uh i asked really surprised how long it to them to change things
00:55:08
and they are they updated their web page like a month ago saying they
00:55:15
were coming to munch with with another hundred events in one week
00:55:20
um i saw all the way in process uh like
00:55:24
whole the whole ceiling proud to find out more
00:55:26
'cause it's very important that we communicate all this things
00:55:31
and um the whole telling brad didn't now
00:55:34
uh it was the first uh i was the first one to tell them hey they might
00:55:38
be a problem but as far as they told me mm bills work day it's
00:55:44
everything was um set so they had no major you should address
00:55:49
so i do it's the it's very important for us is this nation as
00:55:54
combine she was also to sell our hotels announcement there's and prevent them from this
00:56:00
ah i do believe also they use this for uh to get visas
00:56:05
from some countries with these f. rather than sully she will
00:56:09
eventually to go to the destination to specific this nation
00:56:14
and uh that's it i think it's bad for everybody but they're legal as for today it's illegally shoes
00:56:21
so uh it's just a matter of slow things done on time and a good way to
00:56:25
slow down is that sometimes they just knock on your door twenty four hours before and they don't
00:56:30
give you the time to think they pressure you with the time so you you you
00:56:36
say okay can man and ones that holding you just realising the the of the meeting that
00:56:43
you already inside the problem thank you very much it's sounds like a private alright
00:56:49
they don't even have time yeah right off um i saw another lady or
00:56:54
comment and uh thank you very much for sharing information and uh for the new name james
00:57:01
uh_huh
00:57:03
fiona five if yeah just chapel melted convention be right and
00:57:08
how we're gonna be able to stop the high tell sensation this meeting 'cause from hotel cells passively t. v.
00:57:14
it's a docking it's being painful that i really can't what's going on in that the things that
00:57:19
how can we say that that's what i don't really understand on the space between meetings
00:57:26
question how can we do that up sentiment uh_huh
00:57:33
if you have the answer i don't know uh by the way that
00:57:36
in these are the total and uh from a different organisation
00:57:42
i'm the director of the united nations conference and the bayes that you know
00:57:47
this other that you get so could be the the for that
00:57:51
i'll come to the point you see what we are
00:57:54
discussing needs the leadership of response at different level
00:58:00
so my suggestion to all of you is that we
00:58:03
can not only work with the industry level
00:58:06
or the academia but also elevate this is the policy level
00:58:11
it so happened that i we'll we we were holes the d. i. makes light until
00:58:18
and that is a policy dialogue beam the program that you may
00:58:24
in front for to you and makes those kind of follow
00:58:28
oh good for the way we can really bring upscale this problem because is it
00:58:33
global challenge that need the global response agreeable coalition and secondly also
00:58:38
see and i speak now for when i see it
00:58:41
that uh one uh uh up a patron of legalities
00:58:47
united nation w. to you you know nation
00:58:51
eh we're we're tourism organisation i do we need to forge that form of coalition
00:58:56
and try to was phones to respond to these challenges at that level thank you
00:59:01
i think are much designs yeah i totally agree with you i think it
00:59:05
has to go a different uh a higher level because we it's
00:59:10
what counts is standing we can't stop it's fruit and some specs
00:59:15
and that we have no jurisdiction in other countries where it could be happening well if
00:59:20
the if the if if these and the uh conference all the noises of
00:59:24
companies l. o. in america so who who in australia or something like that we
00:59:30
don't hum we can't do anything we don't hum the to me too
00:59:35
way of stopping it and there's no stopping it it's gonna it's it's measuring most rooming
00:59:41
house of control because it's not only in those type of conferences is also
00:59:46
the housing agency in new coming on board there is no whoa
00:59:51
it's the supplies in taoism o. o. d. for a a type
00:59:56
of companies who who was it didn't say that games
00:59:58
so it needs to the ice and much more global on political
01:00:02
level yeah because i when i listen to this i have
01:00:06
ah with somewhat companies right but in the end with or what people close
01:00:10
to what scientific over health care specialists who might be consulting people
01:00:17
my because holding them on my uh a fake uh uh uh accreditation
01:00:25
so the issues actually really really serious and uh uh putting
01:00:30
on the agenda sounds like it sounds a strategy forward
01:00:36
let's see what we have what else we have here um the questions from your in so
01:00:42
was entitled to classify a conference as predatory
01:00:48
uh_huh s. collide i've been working kind of him not in freelance writing
01:00:55
but i'm academic journal writing uh i been trying to develop criteria
01:01:00
a lot of how to identify predictable conferences um or
01:01:05
i have a list of disney nine criteria some are listed in to read
01:01:10
kind of three strikes and you're out ah and some are yellow and then it's ten strikes and you're out ah but
01:01:17
i haven't really published yeah too widely because as soon as
01:01:21
you publish the criteria for identifying a predatory conference
01:01:26
they go just the thought of the one i used to the data
01:01:30
ready to reorganise there will always promise he reviewed under two weeks
01:01:35
and i published that has a criteria now all the web pages will say three weeks
01:01:41
um they're reading very carefully everything that's being written about them are and
01:01:46
they're very very good at what they do uh which is
01:01:51
the predators
01:01:54
thank you um let's see some marketing was just want to clark conference
01:01:59
papers presented because of the platform shouldn't we pressure academic institutions instead
01:02:06
to review a um who asked this question actually
01:02:14
anonymous huh i think the answer is yes yeah i am it's have to
01:02:18
pressure themselves they're pure is universities have
01:02:21
to pressure their researchers harm
01:02:27
back yeah universities alone cannot solve this problem that are we really need to work together
01:02:33
i think some of the jensen will make clear as well nice you've got and
01:02:37
uh more more platform not just in the event in the screen to
01:02:42
a tourism industry um no tells me to be a
01:02:46
involves as far as i understand um so
01:02:52
what does it does he care inform the destination about the p. dot
01:02:56
c. they identify predatory conference they identifies a new appreciation uh no
01:03:04
today to that's a v. on other realtors yes hello i'm a marble from but you can
01:03:10
responsible for the u. association database then as you know uh all of you work
01:03:15
uh submitted better statistical information to us and sometimes you
01:03:19
have no reason to doubt that the information confusion
01:03:22
to establish this is bona fide is is is okay but of course if we discover that he
01:03:28
begin to send it actually contains predatory elements we will inform you shall we will go into the dialogue
01:03:34
with you and explain why we cannot accept this particular meeting for statistics so the answer is yes
01:03:43
uh the the the most the generic approach that we know try
01:03:47
to to follow is like nor mentioned the the blacklist
01:03:51
that we put on the mike because section of the website so
01:03:54
as soon as we identify yet another predatory meeting we
01:03:58
put their couldn't their domain and an abbreviation old that the
01:04:03
least every deliberately decided to not put it on the
01:04:08
public part of the commercial but really on the my deconstruction because like james mentioned
01:04:13
there's a big risks involved with the with the blue like listing people
01:04:17
there's one example i'd like to uh also mentions uh maybe a modern um a few months
01:04:22
ago we were of course very excited about the all of you coming to prague
01:04:26
and we wanted to share this wonderful news with you uh the general uh community so what
01:04:31
we did is we put a a button on the website uh saying who's coming
01:04:36
and if people would you click on that button they'll go to the number of people
01:04:40
in the names of people who had until then budget for this particular conference
01:04:45
but then we were naive apparently then we discovered that the that particular list of your names
01:04:52
was being used and abused a mostly by again go um hotel booking agencies because some of you
01:04:59
have been contacted by these people have you already considered your accommodation can we help you
01:05:05
so this is a very practical example of how we can maybe you lose some of our
01:05:08
naivete and our innocence perhaps and we have to be very alert on not giving them
01:05:14
in any you foot in the door yeah that's actually an advice also for the for the
01:05:18
association suffer appliances not not publish it as you mentioned that uh as well right
01:05:23
um so we we've got a a a a room for one question we can take a
01:05:27
question from uh from the board or if you want you can raise your hand
01:05:35
let's do it from the board let's see um uh_huh
01:05:47
which question with like a
01:05:51
yeah
01:05:53
who was behind predatory conference i depart ever organised crime structure question mark
01:06:00
most of them are not involved in organised crime um
01:06:06
i i was threatened by a certain on social elements but most companies are
01:06:14
former predatory publishers where you create pretty twin
01:06:19
journals this started about twenty years ago
01:06:22
and this became a huge business ah so their
01:06:26
former pretty point publisher is then started branching
01:06:29
into predatory conference's it became huge business and now
01:06:35
you have a lot of failed academics
01:06:39
um hum kind of know the industrial then and a lot of them are but i don't know the
01:06:46
company's uh some of them are just businesspeople the scene money being made in any one in
01:06:51
um and they're willing to break in ben's every rule to do so
01:06:57
ah but it's huge business any all next has been estimated to regenerate
01:07:01
between fifty and a hundred million dollars in revenue a year
01:07:05
serious business heart now most of that is still in the predatory publishing are
01:07:10
ah well one more is being made like conferences on that's one company
01:07:15
ah sometimes like kind of wonderful not on the wrong side
01:07:20
no you want to comment and i just want to make a quick comment on the um think of um
01:07:26
somebody could push it i makes might be i think congress oh in fact um um i've been
01:07:31
approached by them as well on many location of id want it to be me come m.
01:07:38
this is the one step up game by them because they know that we are tracking them down
01:07:43
loony rated b. b. can be doing this more freely to becoming the
01:07:47
commander imagine in the becoming become member and have access to
01:07:53
the association database
01:07:56
um what i'm just thinking about that the ideal life sciences is that um the main organising congress
01:08:02
s. and they found out that uh one of the you got criteria is that oh
01:08:07
the meeting must be elements mine in a in a position might be an organisation they are a for profit company
01:08:13
so what we did was on the b. i. d. live slices like james has mentioned
01:08:18
they have created society called the will high tech to site u. w. h. t. s. and
01:08:23
web site that they have for w. c. s. is exactly like you cover slide
01:08:30
we found out that out oh and how we colour site it's just
01:08:33
launches lhasa was specially designed by us and have the same colour
01:08:39
the same format another thing and i know them very well good abusing
01:08:43
valiant china effect that them say that he's been on the website
01:08:47
but the sending official email a couple of time there's nothing don call them and finally a
01:08:52
pick up the phone you save all all the website it's been done via the party
01:08:57
uh we didn't know that the copy your site you look like your slides lies
01:09:01
exactly yours uh_huh but they might be able to put down the website anyway
01:09:06
but the problem is that you know the over very poses them you will keep one
01:09:11
continue to try to be to be legal or legitimate so this is the problem because the up a business
01:09:17
and and and uh for my makes actually i've within two to re bloom
01:09:21
is say that you know please don't include them in your body sleaze
01:09:25
i know we also have a look that idea i'm not even like them as a via because when you
01:09:29
go all of you are exposing them to all members so these are like the thing that we do
01:09:35
but we are doing you read in the community because we cannot do it so
01:09:38
openly uh_huh might be might be open to the legal situation okay thank fresno
01:09:44
so yeah i just my requests maybe this is what you go
01:09:48
off to to look at the possibility of developing the templates
01:09:52
but tells people simple template to compete with the b. five
01:09:56
this plea the two meetings also stations including issues
01:10:01
other comments from the coming from with european in terms of a response from high level and so on because uh
01:10:08
if if you don't involve our government's them of up oak much to look really two bodies m. m.
01:10:14
other international organisations if you want to him you know oh this will come to because
01:10:19
it's big business basically but a simple template that helps us up into five
01:10:24
on the web sort of a week on them but can be use bother with remote the
01:10:30
could trouble or bodies but very hopeful it's almost about these uh
01:10:34
five reflects that that uh you just don't know those
01:10:37
that works but then additional things that came out from discussion
01:10:41
jeff can be included in bottom plate okay suggestion
01:10:45
copy last word or i think it's uh it's it's a topic
01:10:50
that's gonna keep growing and it's going to be something that we really need to start up
01:10:57
having some sort of actually i think if we don't it's going to impact
01:11:03
on everybody everybody will you know good nice and yeah all stake holders
01:11:09
mm yeah all of us including new sensations have to take this seriously
01:11:13
thank you very much i think it's clear we raise the the issue to a higher level
01:11:17
that's over the request and the i think it's back to a card to uh
01:11:22
to to get the job done for us uh as uh the members um i wish
01:11:29
sorry any associations of course yeah in the end it's all very associations um
01:11:36
i would like to thank you everybody for uh participating in this uh session um
01:11:42
thank you change change across for sure you're
01:11:44
inside saying to rounding thank you ah
01:11:51
if you didn't get your question answered please ask me after yes
01:11:56
right and and you've got a longer list even i believe of more than five uh huh
01:12:01
a red flags i understand if you can share with us it would
01:12:04
be great the questions that haven't been onset for uh we can
01:12:09
check of a car so that's a a together with james and then the panelists
01:12:13
are like this the to to thank the panelists daphne sorry and no
01:12:18
thank you very much harder of course especially you
01:12:24
for participating and raising these questions and uh
01:12:28
yeah take into next level thank you very much i don't forget to a vote for the session uh

Share this talk: 


Conference program

172 views
156 views
107 views
ICCA Congress 2017 Day 2 - President’s Choice Session: Collaborative Professionalism: The next knowledge frontier
Prof. Andrew Hargreaves, Brennan Chair in Education, Lynch School of Education
13 Nov. 2017 · 12:22 p.m.
157 views
ICCA Congress 2017 Day 4 - The Disruptive Art Of Leadership
Miha Pogacnik, Managing Director, ECOCULTURE S.E.C.S.
15 Nov. 2017 · 10:37 a.m.
209 views