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Round table : Sharing knowledge, between simplicity and complexity
Olivier Dessibourg, Pascal Kober, Emmanuel Reynard, Frédéric Fournier
Friday, Sept. 6, 2019 · 1:50 p.m. · 49m 28s
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who who thank you very
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the video or so sustainability is uh
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has real deep roots in this area yeah
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sometimes it comes and strange forms but does something else helps us think about sustainability
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it's so
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so i hope segue who out of the question that helps us agree
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with what's gonna happen now and that was the question or of information or
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because he yeah we uh on a bit of an echo chamber how do we
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convey this information how do we publish sizes so that
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reaches as many people as possible if no one will alchemy
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reach people with the most detailed possible donors accuracy possible this is a challenge today
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in the mountains it's a challenge across the plan and to talk about this challenge
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have a round table with scientists with generalised
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facilitated by a journalist from he has table journalist
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because we have one here from him for many years flowing about bay who his editor inches of
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height your chablis and i would like him to join me on stage now flowing on thank you
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will be accompanied by anybody who disapprove assigned to fill the size journalist and deputy editor
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in chief of heidi news heidi don't use two inches in new media outlets on the web
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so i recommend that you can take a look at and subscribe to
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and also this intelligent sharply regions one of our departments so id don't use has a
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the whole if series of articles on the science i
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which covers the topics we owe covering today o. e.
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uh already disapproval please join us e. or and we
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also have a manual if you know who is the head
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with the cross just present on not research for the universe
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to close um i i must have this can go but a
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you have come from grenoble e. s. guy who is at different
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shoes if has been used for about twenty years of an extraordinary magazine
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which is available on the presentation stands outside this room and
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it's making this court allowed for a magazine which talks about
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people who live in the mountains the populations of the alps day history that society
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from a perspective that it's um the
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uh allows greater public understanding of science
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so he is uh
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one of our partners also and we also have to wait for
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you who is an engineer and a large company called sixty engine is
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and he is in charge of a project what she launched which is called on a mission this is a you
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project for trout funding of reforestation
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of across the world he will talk more about this was scary place file please begin
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huh
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if uh so this is a round table it takes place chewing c.
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s. time so we're going to have to be a loud and dynamic
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so this round table is into is inside
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so a transfer and know how complexity simplicity
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so there's not gonna be able to simplicity yeah as you suspect so the starting point is the
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struggle that scientists have to be listened to as some allies by hate carting
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you probably even more might have seen and is bought on credit soon berg
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uh ga c. fascist uh apples though the the warning the on chain
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scientists poly on chain don't listen to when current uh says that's a people say
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well you're not specialist will listen to specialise on you so this is about this difficulty
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uh in understanding size we're gonna talk about
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we're gonna talk about the crown logical we're gonna take
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a chronological view of whether it was easier in the past
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yeah just one uh some what's happening now
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i'm going to look at certain options uh help things become better in the future so i'm going to talk about each of our guests
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uh and it's i guess is going to tell us for about a minute about what they are doing
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it's an immature you are headed with the interdisciplinary uh
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sensor for man's research in universities and so this into depth discipline actually what does it involve
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so this centre was created it a year ago or any
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any of uh uh estimation petty dialogue and getting people to
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from different disciplines in us is to work together so this
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english should manatees people working in humanities and in natural sciences
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at universities you have wednesday is uh in a
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um a departments and the yeah you wayne it's
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you break down the partitions between them and to also uh l. a. to uh put resources in place
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uh the time needed to tackle the different issues we face plate phone
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yeah you already by the scientists around the table to you or an engineer
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but you have also launched a project entitle on a mission e. project
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to support reforestation page presents it's a rapidly uh_huh and a couple of words
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so the project involves supporting existing reforestation
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project for what you'd which to uh
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making worked out in the field but they saw for i would say from
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financial uh the difficulties if they also have an impact on the climate of uh
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there have been many electronic projects to have a positive impact my climates
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uh one curve rate way of doing this is reforestation is rudimentary an
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engine technology that is something that works said we selected a few projects worldwide
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i dunno aim is to help the most efficient and effective projects to you
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progress even faster and have a long term in fact we saw what
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a few dollars you can save a whale or baby seal but with you
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with a few euros you can plants a hundred and fifty trees so must
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the funding model yet that is the funding model of the projects we support
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how model it does not involve selling trees about supporting the people you plant them
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each project has its own technical
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and economic characteristics
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a petri the might cost ten cents one project you might cost three frames in another project depends
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on how all the projects uh takes place in the local environment surpass can you off
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of lamp a magazine based in grenoble this magazine has been around firmness
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of many is now it's very much focused on the outside of the
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scientific magazine it's you focus more on that's human sciences you don't talk
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about geology you don't talk about it's the dispenser devices to run people
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so what we did produce a an issue on the climates
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to the cover is uh for for to prof from a valet it photographer
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so the aim is to focus from a human sciences perspective in social sciences perspective on entire
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alpine aunt so we're halfway between a magazine and a book because it's a public private a project
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uh oh when which xena and push a basic probably sold and we also work
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with a leading these even cannibal which works and focuses on the world of the alps
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and its main exhibition is shown to learn people the alps and this is something that's the concept we
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ever you push to it's logical conclusion i come from the press um i've been doing is top forty is
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and what we wanted to do was to seek knowledge of at its source to the majority
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of ca our country beaches are scientists ah academics
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out your prefers historians sociologists a. f. knowledge just
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focusing primarily lunch human and social sciences and explain to us what the alps are
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and what they all any time alpine arc of across its geographical surface geographical area
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and we talk about how humans interact and live in this a charger
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so it should be uh you describe this flow
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of information of articles you created all contributes rating within
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ninety heidi don't use c. organised e. a. in eventful so
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global event for scientists uh it is yeah i i i
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uh so um one thousand two hundred of us at
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the school level of and there were lots of scientific journalists
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and i came to the event in switzerland it's becoming increasingly rare
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uh_huh him so had to be a show assigned to stay in uh and it's our losses on anything
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by much to my other hasn't to say this up until september up until the end of september i'm
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i i had of the ease swiss size regional association
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i'm we on welcoming more more members who or not necessary
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is pure sciences so scientific specially split more general uh jen
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lists i mention genesis who oh oh uh interesting scientific topics
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and to cover scientific events and they these people are beginning to think was signed to size
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bigger more more importance we have to have a or maybe gain more knowledge in this area
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uh they might not be a scientists but they might want to know more about high words we're happy to welcome these people
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and we're happy to train them and to get them to understand why uh
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more detail about science and how science is produced
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and how it is manufactured in inverted commas would generate
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uh there's very little knowledge more jealous on how
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science is done and this leads them street signs
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uh maybe incorrectly and to use it for the wrong reasons and see misunderstand it and some misuse it
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without using the usual critical faculties which they used to investigate
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all critique but the uh areas of our wealth so this is
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so there are positions now when it's our offices where people uh
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important science issues but they also report other things so and most precious
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but a more modern is now see the importance eyes and the needs and the wants of become
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more familiar with it and to understand how it should i works and how to report on it
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so uh we get the impression that scientists are not listen to sufficiently today and when they oh
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all day and what they say in the discourse becomes dylan didn't mixed up with thoughts about the discourse
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is misunderstood is it more misunderstood now than i was in the past was it better before our eyes your second question
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so before those performing in the past what what does it mean before the say before the internet
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so around twenty years ago i'm not sure if it was better blues for different
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i think there's a lot less communication between the world of science and society
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and they were filters a certain points
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uh in particular in the media which shows choose importance in things and not
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on others if that that's uh uh it's hard to judge that the f.
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flow of information between science and society so to speak it was much
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more carefully channelled to day uh flows of scientific information
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have multiplied in number thanks to the internet and social media
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and was changed a lot
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it's the filtering let's say of the quality of
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scientific information so uh now today anyone can express
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talk about sites on scientific topics whether it be on
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climatic on climate topics uh which is very illustrative the problem
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uh and the voice of specialists is now being piloted
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within this melting pot of information
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ah and um well
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the for what is being said about scientific topics test a significant change between the past and now
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so it's become difficult to increase the public understanding of science
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ooh nowadays a recurrence say that teaches of last forever
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it's a it's a mess in the eyes of the population politicians to on actually seen a
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illegitimacy inputs historically since the law magazine has
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existed the voice had a trouble communication channel probably
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i'm i said earlier that life is halfway between a
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magazine or book we also uh uh halfway between i signed
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magazine of specialists and a very mainstream publication
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such is look at like magazines such as you'll see what we wanted to do was to give
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uh individuals the ability to speak more
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simply about the work to the public
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and i've always worked surely with the journalists who already in
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place these are people who know how to write but it's
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on the server specialise in a way area they cover and this is the other way around people i'm working now what's passes
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to know that topic but don't necessarily know how to communicate about it so it's about uh
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kitchen like congress she off to topics covered by scientists
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and we change the altars very regularly because we cover a wide variety of topics
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it's i have a i almost never have the same office does it
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we what would people just discovered magazine and we discover a data
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and knowledge in which go their ability to talk about it to the
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public we say to them talk to who writes about is if
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you are a writing for a second to school a pupil or student
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so this source of knowledge which is incredible that you haven't universities weather been france or switzerland
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analysis switch righteous ways uh readers will also along as in
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uh this knowledge has to be circulated it has to
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be put to people's knowledge we sell thirteen thousand copies
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and that we go through the filter if channels in which pose validates aside
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stuff scientific propositions but also mixed um we also need to make a it's
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uh in a basic um sexy enough to make it legible readable for
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people interesting to take phone you uh oh to what the question of reputation
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mm kay
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scientists used to have very uh a vertical way of passing on information
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they used to uh if i can get about the truth that they almost
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a dictated to you but this pad method this particular way of communicating with misuse
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to justify menu a very negative concepts
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the uh as to purchase it amazes uh
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the uh health the benefits of cigarettes a very uh to me these things
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have damaged the scientific world uh and it s. cause them to lose credibility
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almost i don't think we lost credibility is the perception of individuals and the
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public that has changed as we were saying earlier the signs see fig will to
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in itself
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has not uh involved a great deal now more people
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now to the little communicate via the web one has any qualified
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but science uh has always been used by people to
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justify certain things which are not necessarily true or correct
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uh when the distinctions you can make in science in this comes in many uh
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yeah i basis many on my own profession uh yeah i is the fact that
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in a discussion with people when we come out projects where signs at the heart of
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our work with customers we see quite quickly in the case of sciences which i'll call white
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straightforward whatever yeah just a t. v. or 'cause the construction of a building the discussions
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often quite closed the experts expresses their opinion on the person fun to then doesn't have any
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choice just has to accept my thoughts on the concord to question what is told them but when
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the topic is more open one is the question of climate change the environment everyone has their
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own perception of things and their own opinions and this is something that's never going to change um
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there's a difference between the different types of discourse
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you can have depending on the air your uh discussing
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and i think the areas were talking my hero of uh
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a show greater potential for open discussion whether built financially environment
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it's yeah it's like when i'm in the format so one has a heaven hasn't been um
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the uh referees uh decisions sometimes senses have to take on the role of the of the referee
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but the main problem is the question of appropriating knowledge everyone can have their
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opinion on planet but not everyone can go and shack the tens of thousands
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of reports which come from yeah the via i i. p. p. c.s uh scientists
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okay
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and uh i wanted to add to what you're saying to cease to roll of gentle
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and all this we often see that aids which all pole arising
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oh you might have one person says this hand has this this this
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and we always going to find find someone uh to say the opposites
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so we're we're trying to get a conference to different ideas and which
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don't really um think about one weight each of these two sides has
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uh if this is a might be very representative of insider almost insights article in feces b. might
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not be supported by any other scientists but we try and and it's it's any kind of false equivalents
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uh between uh between these issues and denies the general
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public you you they they start to believe that maybe they
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ought to arguments which or equal value those a debate on local t. v. for example on the r. t. s.
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on the vaccination and on where the vixen vaccination against rebel or the amount
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actually my calls alters and see how the former president of the federal confederation vaccination
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she was speaking on one side on the other side there was some guy uh who were
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sure i said yes it courses uh or doesn't tell the woman only the signed up for the ex presidents
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are very vaccinations decision said the study that through that
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purported to prove that fixation causes autism has been disconnected
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and you replied no that's not true though a certain things that
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have been shown but she's so she represented the vast majority of scientists
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but uh and she was given equal have hope hedges had words were
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given equal value by the the platform by the format of the debate
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uh um uh a couple of equal platform equal value
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to the guy you wasn't necessarily speaking based on anything real
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so the the tennis in genders and today is
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to uh to have an argument between someone who knows
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we're talking no and someone else you probably doesn't yeah and the b. b. c. a few months ago
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uh decided no longer two handed uh to give it a four
00:21:38
and to to give a space on the network to climate scan six
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they uh if uh essentially a decided that we are no longer
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going to question fathom man has had an impact on climate change
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so is this a less of a lot of debate about this well yes but you don't have to necessarily be so radical but you could
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have to be careful to uh take it's kind of value of
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what the person says it is not because there are two points of
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view that they are equal we have two would determine who's an expert
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in who isn't there's been a whole debates on the internet recently uh
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around the topic of no fixed signs and three signs says from less
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than has that outs and stood up to say those too much discussion
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on a controversial topics which is
00:22:29
a um you're based on speculation you
00:22:33
need to play scientists and experts at the hearts of the debate and
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to uh sets out to consensus which cannot be questioned because it is so obvious
00:22:43
supply saints for example the position was
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why even though it's not a cut and dry topic but there was a whole discussion on social media
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even our scientific purists said we must no longer
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give a voice to associations and years because
00:23:04
they don't have a real expertise behind the clamps
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yeah it was fairly radical and really uh they're treated us huge storm on the web
00:23:14
and i don't believe this i think they're a associations and engineers that have a lot of legitimacy and have knowledge
00:23:21
uh i've e. genuine knowledge on the topics so question is to ask who is an expert
00:23:29
is this person should this person be treated like an expert to like because of the microphone in hand or have the credentials been checked
00:23:35
so that what is complicated is to find the right arguments find convincing arguments
00:23:42
uh only he was describing a situation where a a
00:23:46
a a host on can creates a big creative needs met
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so you um i the ban certain uh
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a point of view or how would you
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uh almost suppose equality label on the information of experts to
00:24:06
and demonstrate the the veracity of their work but we have the peer review system
00:24:12
uh all this these mechanisms which means when you want to publish an article in scientific review you
00:24:17
are assessed by other people in your field recharge the way the your what can be published or not
00:24:24
sometimes they're uh issues with a certain difficulties to overcome but this is system that works
00:24:32
also what was said earlier
00:24:35
how much is quite interesting i think
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it on the one hand
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signs
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is comprised of 'em all simplicity all uh of different signs see
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with a with a different ways of communicating in these are promoted and
00:24:53
that's by individuals and we can see that u. s. t. professes have
00:24:59
teaching g. t. c. research duties and we also uh
00:25:05
and this is more more significant uh ends more commonly
00:25:10
asked to communicate on certain topics we maybe a an expert
00:25:15
for example i have had to uh take a certain stance uh within a particular
00:25:22
conflicts so this is my why i give my opinion is an expert when your faced
00:25:28
with the media or you're in a debate uh like the one we are
00:25:31
involved in our we no longer uh uh when we treated like an expert
00:25:35
much treated like one side of the argument and it's very
00:25:37
difficult to find the threshold some people say we should not
00:25:43
give voice to enjoy it because they don't have the same day was
00:25:46
at the same noises i'm not sure that comes from an objective viewpoints
00:25:52
uh and it doesn't come from in this doesn't isn't set
00:25:55
in a name us you'd expect represented in our own personal name
00:26:03
so uh scientists mm make a lot of efforts we've criticising
00:26:08
the that crosses i 'cause i just for being ivory towers
00:26:12
i'm not sure that's the case i don't know what was happening
00:26:15
in the nineteen sixties and seventies f. could i think scientists are increasingly
00:26:22
uh involved inside so issues and debates that was difficult is to represent
00:26:28
asserts in a a a whole array of things i maybe that's misunderstood
00:26:34
are we express nice houses as individuals and as experts as members
00:26:39
of the school university it's not always easy in scientific debate so articles
00:26:46
uh where yeah maybe uh they pick up on justice
00:26:49
single sentence out of a whole new ones discussion where
00:26:53
often disappointed with the outcome of this discussion because our whole messages uh
00:27:00
is cut into tiny pieces i don't agree i
00:27:05
said i think scientists are really it completely in touch
00:27:08
yesterday you out there at the base which are not the one i want to say and it's so uh we're gonna your third point
00:27:15
on what we can do to uh to make things better or how can we do things better so just a quick story a company
00:27:22
um you could uh claims to be able to uh the code someone's d. n. a.
00:27:30
it's not about saying you got this kind of d. n. a. you're going to be more like my point depression or et cetera
00:27:36
well uh uh all that was it's a purpose this 'cause companies based in the chablis area
00:27:42
and it has someone from your eye civil laws on on
00:27:45
board it issued communiques in press press releases uh where it
00:27:51
said that this company does this is going to be great we're gonna get it is i said a lot of people
00:27:56
subsequently in the media say this is rubbish this is completely
00:28:00
you this scientifically invalid but they ask it of saying it
00:28:06
i would like not for these people should be
00:28:11
uh called upon more to speak but i would like them to speak i would
00:28:14
like them to just to speak more through all the media to maybe f. it themselves
00:28:21
to put themselves into the debate and say we have all these claims are not true
00:28:26
uh this is uh not what sign says as possible
00:28:31
what i want is great a direct involvement by sizes in society through the media
00:28:39
and i would like them to could come to us and say this
00:28:44
i if these claims are true and basically this these are the facts
00:28:49
so maybe they must get to enter the arena there and let's get stuck into the form
00:28:54
when you uh want to count an argument is a certain
00:28:58
certain bright so this okay so in the size what people like
00:29:03
on the line is complex topics they like to spend time detail
00:29:08
well this intellectual research uh the they're about didn't also means that
00:29:14
they are not necessarily communicate it's not so it's a very outspoken individuals
00:29:20
and this is a a car it's not necessarily as lots of
00:29:25
people characteristic of science so they want to speak out against i worked
00:29:30
today we talk about file is you have to have several different facets of the profession
00:29:35
it's got to get people to welcome people to their telephones uh to do various things on
00:29:42
trained in expressing themselves
00:29:46
well i think a lot of effort needs to be made on scientific communication and not necessarily with
00:29:53
the people you have the power to communicate such right p. p. c.
00:29:59
people like you in the room here have the the ability to express themselves uh
00:30:04
may be either debate has to be if we closely focused on signs and on
00:30:11
given voice to those reviews would is truly of value
00:30:17
scientists us sometimes outside says uh people are outside the system
00:30:23
uh in centigrade zero of arabs and five times and population
00:30:27
uh for scientists it's it's it's clear that these people are modules but in the press
00:30:31
one you pretty someone who represents i'm here for now if you get treated as equals one
00:30:36
it's not it's a necessary when we're together and the public uh doesn't understand this
00:30:43
so it's it's a a a tricky issue uh
00:30:50
giving people of always uh in opposite scientists series is total
00:30:56
legitimacy when in don't necessarily have the qualifications to argue with them
00:31:02
some skins to tell another story uh when i talked about the head of news at google
00:31:09
during a solutions journalism sonnets f. e. he was criticising
00:31:16
and people would print size for publishing fake news
00:31:19
or by climate set six skip hicks because if you
00:31:24
look for this information you find on the go even if you even if you just type in climate and the search
00:31:29
you come up with planets kept six articles been and and his way of a second navigating the question
00:31:37
uh uh um was to say that google just represents what
00:31:41
is out there in society and any reflects what southern society
00:31:46
and uh it's really sees companies have true power
00:31:51
they are the only filtered through which uh people gather to get a a together information about
00:31:58
your next we sort through information we sift through it i'm we put out what's the uh we
00:32:04
i think is quite accurate to people don't necessarily have these filters so google is and face broke
00:32:11
is gradually revises policy on fiction use these are uh so
00:32:16
far the only promised me i would like to see what really
00:32:20
might what what were you will happen in the future in concrete terms in my yeah well now in fit if
00:32:28
if we can sit stiff sensor fake news we would if a sense of those who said that climate change is not sure
00:32:37
oh yeah okay it's true that uh we need is filtered and i think
00:32:45
the media uh that's your role it's your job to select to validate information
00:32:54
and it's in fort important you do separate what people do with
00:32:59
the information that's no longer your problem
00:33:07
one talk about the energy transition which i which has
00:33:11
to be supported in a um in parts by individuals
00:33:18
and uh most you have some inferences society you
00:33:21
have politicians but uh it is also possible uh
00:33:28
to say that some politicians might based a discourse on the information that comes in without
00:33:33
filters and i going to promote it one of them's a heading united states that moment
00:33:41
that's one example but there are other examples in switzerland so i would say
00:33:48
we don't want to what politics here but
00:33:51
here we can see that i use the the way information
00:33:57
is used to uh for the certain political agenda is may um
00:34:06
may e. um well the end up in a situation where if you're an actor
00:34:12
information is becomes mainstream so that's something we have to address without the bates okay
00:34:21
this can come uh
00:34:24
we were talking about what scientific scientists need to do to communicate
00:34:30
better and maybe if room martin channels off what most journalists do
00:34:39
and to come to the disappearance of your scientific journalists uh as we were saying
00:34:44
the genders need to go to a into what sites trying understand better how it worked
00:34:50
i think that's going to be a lot of work to be done e. to
00:34:53
train children and to a given the knowledge and skills in need that we need to
00:35:01
teach children to read information and so on stand information to check who is receiving information who's the source
00:35:08
and that's the big question where you basing your writing on we need to ask when uh
00:35:15
uh some people speak anonymously insertion media why would you
00:35:18
believe someone who writes on them sensors media uh what schools
00:35:23
inference teach kids to be careful to be wary if the anonymous information it would be complicated to
00:35:29
explain to them this is only spec which you have a a mediator you haven't had it uh
00:35:35
uh that helps information uh the filter down to the general public
00:35:42
what is the villages you the information you find on the way and how
00:35:45
to check the validity how can you verify the importance and the relative something
00:35:50
are you finding we could be yeah and how can you should compare it's in in its accuracy to something cinder block
00:35:56
we need to help this will help the whole exactly what better and sense of its perception of information
00:36:03
including in the way in which you ask questions which are uh
00:36:10
i remember when i was at the rate on the climates i had the idea of
00:36:14
probably shouldn't at least one article on the beneficial effects of global warming
00:36:20
there must be some uh benefits
00:36:23
and you can drive here uh to the job of the and you can see lots of fines
00:36:31
uh uh alongside the road was the videos and if they were swarming
00:36:35
hey we could grow grapes digit really make wine so that's a benefit
00:36:40
we also have an uh an article on
00:36:44
uh arts archaeology in classes and when classes now we find the
00:36:49
archaeological artifacts this is good for archaeology so this is a micro effect
00:36:54
uh compared to the negative impacts of global warming but just the fact of answering the questions
00:36:59
was a very troublesome first many people in the editorial
00:37:02
office and is something which controversial what uh i absolutely
00:37:09
uh i could just with all the last four years uh no the the
00:37:15
the act of soul for work out because everybody could be heard
00:37:21
all we or leaving the at a knowledge base side
00:37:27
a what do we had a professor or you know
00:37:30
we you wore it or or something else this is the way it is a state of
00:37:36
the story thank you could not so about how knowledge can be shared with a real debate
00:37:47
it used to be that we had the people would you uh the people were
00:37:52
already know it ah it it it went up there are no it's what what role
00:38:01
and for drop foreclosed is their job
00:38:05
to critique the literary ah
00:38:11
meeting up the current
00:38:14
uh you need peer review oh oh even though it has reached its limits
00:38:25
very often you know with a four year read
00:38:29
mister so and so was published at the prestigious
00:38:32
go x. y. z. of your eloise but the you know 'cause details a little exactly go by
00:38:40
others say a shoulder huh radio that he's talking
00:38:46
what is to stop so ah everything has to be easy take it with pictures
00:38:54
uh has passed that was uh to eat horse periods uh
00:39:01
has to be able to now
00:39:06
split hers it or to group you know and i sort of
00:39:14
that's not what we let's go
00:39:19
or i'll sawyer
00:39:23
or sciences wow see their work pro for it
00:39:28
now is it something common
00:39:32
yes i want to be able to read ahead of obligation
00:39:43
i hate ah was a good way to do it says that they have disappeared
00:39:57
oh because abduction which to solve a sort of like it also
00:40:07
job was like quotes to be or for for
00:40:11
uh the courts also tones are used in the context
00:40:17
uh or out of context
00:40:22
uh and out of context would stop
00:40:28
our rubber or
00:40:30
or higher wow what's our was quoted
00:40:34
uh the the article but nothing to do with
00:40:39
what i had originally said it was totally biased
00:40:43
so what i was little i but the way it was just a well uh just about almost
00:40:53
huh
00:41:02
okay are concluding question
00:41:09
was it did you to communicate
00:41:15
the past considering the sire
00:41:18
what would you will be so with a low expectations
00:41:25
the potential
00:41:28
i e. e.
00:41:31
uh_huh up so late
00:41:36
oh wow
00:41:41
it's exactly what the object what was earlier on a short we
00:41:46
you know we got fossil fuels but we wore a couple holes
00:41:53
so just to just copy
00:41:56
however tops of computation up
00:42:02
the object huh
00:42:06
ah now
00:42:11
but we did a uh to work a room
00:42:17
refers to a it is possible e. or so
00:42:28
e. e. or better structured
00:42:33
do we ever get rid of
00:42:35
we will uh yeah
00:42:41
uh it's
00:42:43
it's just good composition what the world or the uh ready to help you
00:42:53
so yes it's a sort of but for
00:43:00
it can i show
00:43:04
all the uh the share or
00:43:16
oh
00:43:21
well
00:43:24
i'm sorry oh it's true it's or uh uh uh for for uh oh oh yes
00:43:36
all such project but i would like to for this to happen
00:43:43
it's cool to open up on its tools
00:43:49
a critic for uh
00:43:52
it's good especially with uh schools uh
00:43:58
that hurt
00:43:59
the whole approach is that is a critic uh the wheel to question
00:44:13
uh especially with him or her
00:44:18
with regards to
00:44:21
the culture you should should be a real sure
00:44:27
ah because the the tape is the apartheid uh oh
00:44:33
for for call to just curl
00:44:41
what hardware toward uh was cool with with hours a week off
00:44:49
college preparation for this
00:44:53
so the rising youth uh covers a lot of all this
00:45:02
uh
00:45:05
right so the uh
00:45:10
the
00:45:12
ooh that
00:45:15
well eh for us
00:45:19
now just
00:45:23
approach with bob
00:45:25
or or the hell or should read
00:45:31
a bit
00:45:41
the question
00:45:43
okay well so it will
00:45:50
ah well one last question here
00:45:57
uh_huh
00:46:03
somebody could be an expert uh style just about what is world it
00:46:08
published to use or a bit who he or she works we fall
00:46:21
i'm also
00:46:29
we uh or uh uh uh oh spots are experts
00:46:37
so what value will are those studies have considering that we
00:46:43
have by the state of a word because you by the public
00:46:50
so what is your approach
00:46:56
the income uh
00:46:59
a shattered by those are two is the what about
00:47:03
comfortable first what does the job a job was
00:47:08
dollars should uh actually ask or sciences that there is that part of it
00:47:15
we have a chore questionnaire
00:47:19
the we would forward to all uh
00:47:25
our work
00:47:31
it's five six questions written records of it it was it was persians were shareholder so
00:47:40
um
00:47:41
this is actually quite were were
00:47:46
that helps
00:47:53
we get it is ruled the lot opens up with adults
00:47:58
that is so this is really easy to lack of credibility
00:48:05
i told her
00:48:08
absolutely
00:48:10
you're talking about the goods uh uh for the uh
00:48:17
while balls that is all done by sergeant
00:48:22
so the issue is ordered
00:48:27
is that so that kind of weather
00:48:31
i don't work to those sensitive uh
00:48:36
there are uh so
00:48:39
that's okay
00:48:42
but
00:48:43
if one is the war should visual war is uh
00:48:50
and for us uh confidence uh so so i think that's very interesting
00:48:59
with regards to e. processes the tenure a cup is ah
00:49:05
it is a question that is a different should asked yes
00:49:13
uh_huh
