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A-1240 How to get your paper published
Grey Giddins , UK
Friday, June 15, 2018 · 2:05 p.m. · 16m 41s
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00:00:01
a jolly good welcome um and thanks for hearing me and how to get published
00:00:06
what i wanted to do was um the next slide i wanted to put my bank
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details up and tell you how much you have to give me to get
00:00:12
published i was told i wasn't allowed to do that so we'll do the alternative
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more painful read um these what i want to go through preparation the study
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writing the parts that the paper submitting the paper responding to reviews
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i think that's very important and then hopefully celebrating at the end 'cause you've got your um paper published
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um there are many short cuts so if you're looking for a short cut it's probably go to another session
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um i think it's important to understand that it's unlikely you're gonna be really
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good it will bits of this okay when you do an operation
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you don't expect to be really good it will be it's first time and you know the and it's easier on the
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post doc yeah and all the rest of it you will have strengths you might be a pretty in gifted
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surgeon but not so good interpreting m. r. r. a. you may be
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very good it patient communication a not so good with the droll
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um you need to recognise that um and not be intimidated by but i think you've got to
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do it or not explain how you can uh work around at work in a team
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okay with that sees the papers written historically um by um one person or two people uh
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and esther both for that and i don't think you have to have a team of
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twenty seven people to write up a case series is three
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patients that's probably inappropriate but you will find it easier
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to do this in the team to work without the people to help you and it may be that
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you don't need them necessary to have the name on the top of i don't
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have to be integrated over they may just give you some support of someone
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you know a mentor that you can look to can look sort of paper now so working the team is very important
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i am not these 'cause it's very difficult on your right in that paper sits there was
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it's on your computer anything on mask and like that but it's just too painful
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well got edited if you can do a bit send it to someone they can do a bit send it back you get some momentum
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so what to start with a good idea if you haven't got a good idea post war is probably not web publishing and it
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may well not get property doesn't have to be your idea that
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hopes to be someone else's idea um to take it on
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i have suggested in my time to people i work with some good ideas
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jose suggested some ideas mind that i thought were really good which turn out to be rubbish
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and them what i was encouraged people to do is challenge the idea and oh so
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make sure you really the literature it may be that that has already been done
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the the person suggesting the idea didn't know that do that then you got a lot or you
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didn't know that so do check the literature out and oh so that may guide you
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as to where to go maybe your good idea is someone as i do they didn't really take on
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that you can take on or maybe with the first study wasn't very well done and it's bean
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we probably secondly marriage and act i mean for instance one that strikes
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me is that i'm clay entice supported in nineteen ninety one that
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the outcome escape for fractures was the same with you had the thumb
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in vogue ice skate for cost the cost or new tourist cost
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and someone redid this study a few years ago got published struck me i thought
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everyone knew that but not everyone did it seems and that was useful
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so this is a useful mullet three aphorism time spent reconnaissance what
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times but indirectly so that time wasted so it's the preparation
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the masses it's very tempting to go straight in and it's like an exam you sit down
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you wanna write the paper or write the study but it's the preparation of max's said
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to some time in advance and it'll save you time in the end
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so when you come to the study and to take lee the writing the most important part
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is the methodology it's the most boring bit it's the bit we don't really
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like it's the bit when you read a paper you skip through
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but it's the most important but in its when you're reviewing this one is right is the one the edges
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really look at 'cause it's the methodology is bad doesn't matter how
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good the idea here is the paper when we probably shovel
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take advice and that's hopefully from your team and i always recommend pretty writing the paper
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now i don't mean by that you make the results up we discourage that
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um it has happened um it's but you camp rewriting them particularly the
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introduction that your literature view that's what you checked out that's
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what you made sure that someone hasn't down this perfect study this report repeating it
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then you'll methodology ease the take me your body you use when you wanna know that in
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advance you don't get to the end of your study and then suddenly work out
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you needed to know where the patient is right or left hand on it and you got a ring them all up will find out from the notes
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so the methodology you should write in advance so you can watch it for the paper and bones
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and then the results will come out to the methodology and therefore
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if you write that in advance you not gonna write pages of the patient is gonna right but you're gonna record the ages and your band
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read that i think um actually i do need to know hand dominance or something else
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it is very useful to probably write the paper and so so you got something on paper design adding data to
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um and i keep coming back to is try not to do it all
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yourself work in your team um and i really encourage people i'm
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writing with to write a bit of the paper and send it to me i can ride a bit more and send it back
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and they come out a bit more then you get some bounce back and it's not so intimidating to try under it perfectly
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we know the structure papers so that straight forward introduction
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methods results and discussion and you could might them
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a little bit separately so that helps you get a bit on paper and feel you making progress
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as i said you should already have your introduction methods rate e. from
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your preparation before you even go to finally write the paper
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down so this makes it easier having some stuff down at the
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blank piece of paper the blank screen is rather harder
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and when you're writing it the most important part is the methods
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that's the most important part of the study you plan is
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the most important part of the bit you right it's the bit people do least well so just take your time
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and the results follow from the method it's so if you're
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reporting the results that you measured the height of
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wood or the the average height of the patients was six foot tall one meter sixty or whatever
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if you didn't measure in the methods you can't put in the results so if you
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don't say i measured the height by sending them up against the wall whatever uh
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you can't put in the results and equal if you put in the methods
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you gotta put the result interview said ice to the mall measures against the wall and then they were in the result
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is over the hike then people are gonna wanna what know why so the results follows from the methods
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so therefore each reflects the others it was you prepare your paper think these results i'm
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gonna need i'm gonna need that heightened their weight and their hand dominance and
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have all the grandmother was when she died things that that then you gotta say that in the methods in how you measured it
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and then you can put in the results and try to put in the same order
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it's very irritating reading a paper where the methods the first thing is we
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looked at patients and we measure that age and a gender and all the rest of it
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and then we measure their grip strength and then we measured that deck school was in there in the
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results the first thing is the dash was well that's not logical goes through in the same method
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so it's just following to name again makes it easier just flowing through
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in the discussion you gotta remember what you're trying to do in discussion and
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in your discussion you're slightly trying to sell your paper we're trying to sell your idea
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why should anyone bother reading it was so new and interesting about it
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and you wanna say why your results about it and oh so what do they had to what we have already knew
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so for the validity you compare it with the previous work so that if someone else is done
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a study that similar so i've done some work looking at d. r. u. j. instability
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um and we look i would compare ah data with archie with c. t. scans an m. r.
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i. scanner ports and they reported similar numbers so that suggested what we would do in
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was valid that was one of the ways we could encourage people to think that our technique was about it it doesn't prove it
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but it's supportive evidence and equally the literature might show something completely different and you're
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gonna need to explain why your technique is peshawar allowable or explain the difference
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and then you got i'm what's new what you adding what you're telling us it's different
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so that you may have developed a new technique for fixing made a couple fractures
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and you gotta persuade people it's better and you're gonna tell it's better because it's quick uh
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and it's more reliable than the patients get back to work quick uh and none of
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them have any pain and there's no performs you know with the smartest things
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to persuade people is better because if you counted is just well i get the same results the one else
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it doesn't really mean much snow was very interested so y'all trying to
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think how you selling its without over selling it of course
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when you submit the paper see britain is paper you're very proud of it but your bit intimidated
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you gonna submit it i one thing i would say is there's no harm presenting
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papers in meetings like this you get suggestions people aussie questions i've improved studies
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on pretty what i've written when people abbas questions and made
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suggestions i'd not sort of say cheese your journal carefully
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if it's a case reported three cases something a bit interest in the hand
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don't submit it to the lawn sit then not gonna be interested okay
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see where it gets a bit a very plastic orientated subject you may wanna plastics channel
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if it's a wrist fracture thing the gentle hand surgery european one doesn't take
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a is you may submit it to another p. d. channels so
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i think what you gonna do read the general rules okay i put that
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in and then on if you will know when a but does
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we've even got for the gentle hands uh to european got the rules in various different languages
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it's always said if you wanted to hide the secret put in the middle of the rules for was that is 'cause
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no one ever reads them but try to it is very boring in typical but they're there to guide you
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and when you go into the system to submit your paper you have a lot of boxes to fail
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no we didn't design them to make your life difficult but that's what you think
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it is painful but just goes through there is some logic and the systems are bit generic so that's why
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and you probably get it wrong first time okay i submit it quite a lot
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of papers to the general hand surgery european whereas the editor in chief
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and i've never submitted want the paper where it hasn't come back from
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the tour managers say you've got this wrong okay so i'm
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not gonna pretend it's easy and i can't do it so don't worry about that now i want you know that's just excepted
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get it right send it back so what you get you get really we waiting and then you get response later you open
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it up and you hope that's except for the probably by now say one of these things most commonly revise major
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except that's great very unlikely don't hold your hopes out revise
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mine at that's easy and that's gonna be unusual
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just address every point cafe in promptly and then when you send it back try to make
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it easy to get it to the edison may well be doing this at midnight
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yeah that's that doesn't necessarily think this is the most uh chattering paper home time but they decided to accept it
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they want a job made easy respond clearly and concisely and
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on to every question even it's else even if
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one review was asked the question one when another the other way on to them but
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try to do it probably because the edits so it'll be fresh in their mind and it's
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easy if you if you just sit on this some white white it doesn't get easier
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this is the most common thing you're gonna get other than rejection is revise major
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this doesn't mean you're gonna get accepted you may still get your paper rejected
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but at least you've not been rejected straight off so that's good
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on the set every point when the reviews send their reviews denies the at it's set in when i was doing it
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but sometimes disagree completely i might disagree with both of them or one would disagree with the other it's what it
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is it's a set of thoughts from other experts and you need to address that even if you say
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yeah that they say this is a very nice paper you say thank you very much or they say you know
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they like spell resources name wrong and you can detect it you find the right you can sex i think it's right so
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you don't have to disagree you don't have to agree with everything and you may profoundly disagree
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then you can make an argument about it politely you might put few paragraphs to explain
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why and sometimes i've even had conversations with horses to try to work it out
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the n. h. l. wants to publish the paper if it's good enough they want to help
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you get down but equally they wanna make sure it is a good enough standard
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and might be you may have to do this time again i bounce papers back nine times before now to
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we got it right it's an effort to get it right and different l. editors do it different ways
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but just bear with them and keep trying to want to everything and you can't honestly say we didn't measure that we can't
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do we can't get back on this data we don't know it doesn't mean you're gonna get rejected just be truthful
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or as big a rejection what is not the end of the right you baby may we're gonna probably sit
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somewhere else read the comments you should hopefully le and hopefully they'll be constructive and you can do better
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i consider them and discuss them with your t. what we can do maybe it's too flowed you're gonna can
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the study but hopefully you this something you can get out of it you can submit it elsewhere
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occasionally you can appeal to the editor you shouldn't be expected to do this every time but
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thus they may just to really missed it all you think the reviews of really miss the point to what you say
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and it is quite important and you can might back up uh like that at
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and they should consider it but you're not gonna get into long correspondence
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it's probably best to lick your wounds improve the study it's a bit elsewhere and
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often you can get published somewhere else not this are the first later
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so hopefully you can except the paper and then you can celebrate and then you can start the next one
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so in conclusion it's not for everyone that you don't it's not double the best surgeons have to write papers
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that isn't true you can contribute in many ways and that may not be your strength though i think
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it it can be very fulfilling i think you can contribute always more perhaps
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than treating patients if you can change an idea and get a
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room full of people to treat their patients differently you may have contributed
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even more than you do day to day it's much easier team
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the methods what you were really concentrate on and if you need some help i'm happy to offer advice
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send me an email uh i don't think i'm gonna offer to rewrite or your paper but i'm
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hopefully going off can maybe offer some point is but there are lots of other people i'm not the
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