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Session 10 - Finance for Biodiversity - Part 2
Nicholas Niggli, Republic and Canton of Geneva - Deputy Secretary General
Thursday, March 3, 2022 · 2:11 p.m. · 55m 13s
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so much over the and things uh for being park after this a lunch break
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um i'll invite uh our panelists to get more into the centre
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here and and while they are moving chairs we we we've got we
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asked them to to move you know not not just in their minds but
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physically uh oh i'm just introduce very quickly what this this
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kind of is about or certainly what my interpretation is of
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what this planet is about and to do that i'd like
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to get park uh exactly a hundred and a five years
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about five years ago with regard to me uh each opinion said something fairly relevant
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there are the case when nothing happens and there are weeks when the case will happen
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it seems we are exactly in such a week
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uh in just a matter of a few days
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uh it seems start uh masks have uh being replaced by helmets
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in a people's minds and on quite a few people's heads
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but why this has happened uh uh another piece of news how's how's emerge
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uh we have seen once again thanks to our recordings from i. p. c. c. dot the
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world is indeed facing other existential threats and
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the on this front climate crises and biodiversity loss
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i'm afraid it's going to be even harder to reach a
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cease fire so what do we do about this uh this
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is uh the subject of uh this very high know what
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can jean yves are do how can we serve uh the world
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uh in the context of a nature and value diversity
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finance this is really zooming out from just water uh and to
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discuss this to discuss concretely what uh the the strategic and and tactical
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uh dimensions uh are we we need to
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focus on we have a for a wonderful politics
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uh are you would like to start with the ladies as
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as always and the one uh who has the most to merits
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a year is really or very uh already uh when you
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presented our target before you're the director of the art on network
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uh but you're married is indeed the strongest because you've been asked
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join this this panel sort of a a very great stage and again it just shows
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your agility and and an impressive capacity to just you know get from
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one thing to the next uh thank you so much for being with us
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then i'd how from our you know a chauffeur regular here from from the the use g. a group ahead
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uh she has been a a small want a bit ahead of time
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that she would be on this panel which is going to be equally impressive
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here thank you so much money or for for being with us a very and
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then i have to go uh to seniority uh to wisdom and and obviously marked your
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your your your next mark i just introduced you this morning so i don't need to
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to what what i already said i don't obviously we how of uh fabio softly are
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the the the the the the chairman or the president i don't quite know what what the the real tight there
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there's a visitor is a stable finance jean yves off
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and the co founder uh offered three brought ventures as our
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uh uh from which i i think is is certainly not thinking just in in in black and white it's
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quite quite clearly opposes it is why despite the name so these are these are the people who are so
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who here
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huh huh i'm i'm showing my my uh physical agility as well
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and and without without for that you i'd like to sort of uh get you a bit
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of a feeling for what this panel is uh is gonna be about i mean i don't want
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these ladies and gentleman to just a sort of you
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know give announcer each of them and then we go to
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the next question uh do you have the right to
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chart to challenge each other and to ask follow up questions
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so we we would make this a an entertaining session you just start lunch
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so you need to to to be kept a awaken on you on your toes so that's that's what i intend to do
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room uh uh so that's that's about how it's gonna be
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working working it's gonna be very interactive about starts the frosting fellows
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hi i think if the rules are applying to everybody so
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you you you can definitely and i would welcome being challenged or
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certainly on on everything uh you you want me to challenge uh
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he goes about stuff so first things second key issues to be explored
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and i'll i'll i'll hear just ask for questions
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for questions which i'll i'll i'll then individual lies obviously
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uh which are going to be what what we will focus on this often first question why nature is balls
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actually market challenge we spoke about this the risk this morning
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but also an increasingly important opportunity which we need in
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my opinion to seize but they might they might disagree
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let's see uh how to accelerate if possible to change
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of partition which needs to happen in order to make nature
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but you're you're in financial decision making and what's happening if we don't do not
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third how concretely can reposition jean yves ah it seems not that's gonna be a strong
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theme in this in this session how can we position this ecosystem a specific ecosystem to lead
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on nature and biodiversity finance and where is the competition going to come from
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i think we need to to have a bit of an assessment of of who knows what
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uh in the world and then and then you know we have top remarkable array of skills and
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expertise in in this field in jean yves off but the start really are going to be enough
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to get it done in other terms what what is missing uh to to get those uh going
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and since we spoke about about jean yves ah let me uh make a
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uh an exception to the rule uh once in my life or that it should be always ladies first
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because for use of your your the president of a service to
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signify as jean yves also i'd like to you to to to open
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uh because you have the geneva perspective it's a very assisting fungus
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geneva hard copy straight laced is is has been a trail blazing association
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regrouping the various sustainable and impart finance actors in geneva
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you've seen and we have seen that was uh the last five
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years a finance system finance growing spectacularly in moving from nice too mainstream
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uh do you see the same potential for nature and biodiversity finance thank you so much
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thank you new colour um so so yes of course as your huge potential but i have to to
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maybe go back will be to history because um
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switzerland has been a pioneer in in what we cool
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uh initially micro finance than it has become impact investing but it
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was a very much on social and economic development soul development finance
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and and and and so we could position uh switzerland in
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the map now to know these it's one third of the assets
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uh manage worldwide the arm out from switzerland suppose there's definitely an
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expertise in the region and and when s. o. g. was was
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created in two thousand eight naturally these actors like senor ticks sponsoring
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a uh do you want a board showed responsibility where or low
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a a major player already uh in the past and and progress is
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progressively we've seen the the green finance coming into the the scene no
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and and not what we see with nature now it's it didn't blow the larger a spectrum
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of activities and and that's where i see a lot of opportunities to to to to babies r.
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a future on what we've been doing and on our expertise but to move out in in you sectors
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and and the combination of of of expertise in the social
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development can also be don't uh in in the in the uh
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it's initial based a solution now on my perspective because i come from the microphone xena
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i i have seen the the tag lines coming in going in and when we started to the optics
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uh uh we were talking about micro credit and then it became micro finance and certainly from the us we heard
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about impact investing so it's nice words and and is
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very useful to use them because you can market them uh
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uh with power i would say and and now nature finance uh is this new kind of
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tiger line that is very useful to to
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to go out of the pure energy producer or
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a energy infrastructure that needs a lot on of the green finance and nature bay is the
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solutions or nature finance has the potential to show
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'kay is uh a lot of the innovation that are requested no
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to actually read the transition into something new so it's not about
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uh helping n. g. o.s only i would say it's not
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only about like small things it about b. b. technological uh movements
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oh that are requested to to on on on the transformational foot systems on the uh
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on on on health issues a lot of things so it's it's really about this
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thank you thank you so much for view for this uh for this opening statement
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uh uh working together uh using words but transforming
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words into action these are these are really key issues
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and that leads me to mari low uh uh you know uh you valued spoke about
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uh moving beyond words and how we can market these issues
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you're representing a a very significant doctor in the genie
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right ecosystem but also way beyond uh jean yves off
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because as well there's a t. v. in
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a financial doctors are now communicating indeed very proactively
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on on on on your use g. credentials and i guess
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that's um a lot of it is literally you in your hands
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uh are you happy with the pace of progress uh and what should the
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bank to to confirm that is indeed all in on sustainability thank you so much
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thank you can yeah and i think when we were consisting entirely were never happy with the pace of progress
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i always think it's too slow and we should be going faster than i have to say i think and it's
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so i've been in the status in italy and response like testing for fifteen
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years and the pace of change has really accelerated and that kind of last
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even i would save in three years and and and meeting a lot more actors as you say can you get me
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and i think yes that's the standards in the next election session finances knocking into
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ah and finance now has to show how it is contributing and supporting that transition and
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what's really helping ass let s. increase transparency i said we make a actually the whole system is communicating work
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if the regulators also of getting involved in this right is the worst thing that your cans coming in very strongly
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i am like there s. f. d. r. with their green taxonomy and sell even actors
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working in again by far not necessarily as well as they could and then
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if the structure and does that weren't communicating are now being forced to kind of
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you know play sending more transparent and what's really challenging and
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this particular time is that because there are no common standards
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right that we are getting requests you know we're requesting more transparency you ha s. rest calf handing over
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communication ancillary as either communication and others and we need
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to get a baseline where we can agree on econometrics
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better material and that are helpful to many pastors to actually re direct capital and it's it's alright say what's
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really important to remember as as financial institutions what is
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our role right and all that that's it's to support
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the transition to loci band nature positive real economy right because we invest in economy and
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our role will be to support that transition and so the way that we look at it
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and is is really there's different ways we can do that right the first way as redirecting capital
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right so that's something we've done as an innovator wire at events you know already twenty two years ago
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we invested in water through less inequities right and created this
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wire strategy which might be on geography is we the on
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sector is looking at a specific theme and looking at getting wire from eight to be in the best quality as quantity possible
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this is uh not enough right we know that to have systemic change you need to actually have change across
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the system and so then we started to pull out what we had line and is investing in wider instead
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actually there staring material questions around water for example that you could
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say is that i am i net or other nature related issues
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is that how can we actually learned friend s. and shift other companies in global portfolios
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towards a better stay around whatever you can do that's around my neck as well and it's really interesting 'cause actually if
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you look at textiles right if you like actually and average if you look at my name that all of these semiconductors
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these are all companies you would find in global portfolios across many different strategies none of them are
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many of them are not actually that's what are what are fun but you can than not at where
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the risks are in the system and start to get assistance chest and what those
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companies and doesn't situations to shift and i think that is so important people forget
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right now i think about channel and capital to those that are already green that's
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also the easy thing to do because then you're invested in companies that are well
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not controversial actually where we need the most focus today i would argue and where investors
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can make the biggest change is actually in shifting back eighty ninety percent of the system
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and it's not yellow card and that is not yet you know i'm
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taking into account why risk for example there is not yet nature really
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even taking nature into account and that's where i think building bridges is
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so important because this is something you cannot do alone in your corner
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right that cannot sit there and come that way its own way as engaging with water companies with our own
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our own you know approach we have part of the solution but in fact we need to be engaging with angie doesn't need
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to be engaging with friday other private companies meeting leveraging other
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stakeholders other investors around specific issues and i think this is where
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a lot of companies are having trouble because you have to go beyond
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your own industry you and i don't think this is only true in finance
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i think our baby channels to banking and finance also is is
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really highly actually talk to each other around focus teens that needs and
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and that's exactly what we need movements such as building bridges
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and the capacity to really you exchange and and kept allies
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beyond our room stakeholder groups uh
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and not switching divine the could could play a a
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very significant role thank you so much uh material for this
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so do you need value as a we seem to be on the
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move but i think it's always really good to have a reality check
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and to lock a mark i i've not i'd love you to to to
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sort of speak a bit about what the rest of the world was because you were you were we
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you remain a senior adviser for this uh a global network of financial centres for sustainability of
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c. four s. which we have proved to genie
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well um it is the glass half full uh
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what what what what's the competition and uh now we ahead of
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the game or not uh what's the picture remark thank you so much
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i think that uh let me start was i mean that simon said except in his keynote
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to a meeting today and that is that where ever watershed moment um we all know that we've
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been building towards greater interesting nature finance that
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to the they're more more actors are piling into
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the space uh there's a lot of innovation i think that that the pages this morning to showed
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over what an incredible range uh innovation and entrepreneurship is taking place so
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it says uh feel that that's really beginning to move faster but simon said is that it's a watershed them so
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if it's a watershed moment uh we need to be very very clear about the choices that we're going to make
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and so uh i think geneva in terms of sustainable finance um so directly clay
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defeat a few years ago and and building bridges is is the best example of that
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and the the particularity building bridges is that it brings together
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all of the different actors uh in this ecosystem in in geneva more widely in switzerland
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and it it's it's starting point is just that my
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window said you can't do this just by individual actors
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sharing information and and doing things and around corners it's gotta come together
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yeah my senses that has to come together a lot more than it already has right so so maybe critical for for a moment
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i don't think there's any reason for june either for us or those
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in this room to be a self satisfied with doing great stuff we're doing
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interesting things we're innovating things are moving we're contributing to that movement
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but the the to the prizes really still way out and
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and uh i think i might my personal view on this
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oh come back your question about what others are doing but my personal
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view is that you need is uniquely placed to take a strong competitive position
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in nature fine it's partly because it's new when nobody else sees that well
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we still have time to make this region either thing but partly
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also because unlike other financial centres journey that's got this incredible range
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i've international talent and experiences got the un agencies is that the world economic forms that the b. b.
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c. s. the it has seven it has lots and lots of n. g. s. i. s. d. uh
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maybe that we heard from today and and the question is this how do you bring them
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together in a kind of configuration that will enable them to contribute their peace and for for
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uh the whole thing to be considerably greater than the sum of the
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parts and i think i think that's still the challenge out there we haven't
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figured out how to do it it is got to got to investment in in nature and
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water uh in oceans it the the whole range of products are rather fantastic but how do
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we take that and and put it together in a way that uh that that that builds
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on duty this advantage that gives you need a
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kind of competitive edge in what simon described as
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newly emerging nature markets and and build on that
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so the geneva comes the place that you turn to
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if you want to come to grips with the the challenges and opportunities of major fine that's
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i'd i represent also the the the international network of financial
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centres for assisting that is thirty nine financial centres around the world
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that um that have committed to speeding up the sustainable finance transition
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and i can tell you that the interest in
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nature finance batteries define it's it's absolutely enormous we just
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published a paper for them on on the challenges and opportunities in the space will be doing a series
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of weapon hours but they are and frankly still behind where we are in geneva we're a little bit ahead
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yeah i said teachers i say that the important thing in teaching is to be one chapter ahead
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of the class in the in the text book well we're one chapter head but not much more
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thank you so much mark eh i think that's probably one of one of
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i thought the the very beginning oh of your of your of your take
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uh that we would essentially be for the first time in history disagree
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on something 'cause you you spoke about the fact that we still have time
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and i think we're running that town of design yeah exactly so a a
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short amount of time we still have a short amount of time to position
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and to make a difference because we are all all running out of time we need to move now
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these things are taking time to essentially then get into effect
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uh to produce results and uh uh again having worked uh uh uh
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the multilateral level having being abroad in other uh uh uh active in other
00:21:07
there's significant a financial centres uh in in your
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your uh parts of my life i know how quickly
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uh the competition is moving so yes we might still be a bit ahead
00:21:19
of time but but i think we we don't have so much time left
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let me let me now come to to do that because i i i think there is
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a a very important point we need to
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address here we speak about uh engagement and how
00:21:36
actors are indeed positioning on this how can we very friday
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what uh during the doing a mario you spoke about transparency and i totally agree with you
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uh there is a a very vacation element uh
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a dimension of of looking really truly at at what
00:21:56
the effects are the the what we call the positive external it is that what we we are creating
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uh what what can we do in this view dots where are taught seems
00:22:05
to be very active i i we we we've talked about up many times
00:22:09
how do you see this moving a forward and and what can
00:22:12
innovation really contribute in in this context although thank you so much
00:22:18
thanking me kinda and everyone is range that's critically important points and i think it speaks to
00:22:26
and then i think you have to have a being a an
00:22:30
apple or an operating finder entity or vehicle here specifically engineered the
00:22:35
place of dialogue in finance and breathtaking meats and and natural landscape
00:22:41
i think to get to the heart of your question it's really about
00:22:45
informing you know what it means to be ah we have to redefine what it means to be engine hua
00:22:51
kind of in terms of in terms of our arouses finance here is how we do this work
00:22:57
how we did the due diligence thing but you ask informs
00:23:01
what you receive as a response and so first and foremost
00:23:06
i'm not sure that i can speak as clearly to verification but i can certainly speak to
00:23:12
you know the the framing of the of then the the appraisal intelligence exercise that investors
00:23:18
integrate into their every day when we leave this wonderful conferences in the house
00:23:22
well we all agree on collaboration and we all agree on the importance of transparency invisibility
00:23:28
how do we actually change the twelve then and had another way
00:23:33
we email i'm not sure how do we actually integrate different types have
00:23:39
and frameworks and dished out into how representing
00:23:45
the various opportunities before s. and i think
00:23:47
there's something to be said for and integrating might well established that there
00:23:53
as the framing of what isn't that neat sure what isn't nature pains mean
00:23:59
for for an investment professional what what questions messed we integrate into id dozens
00:24:04
presence how can inform the way that we as investors and looking at things like
00:24:11
timelines have patients we are and look really preference and the
00:24:16
way that we handle that in a business it struck me
00:24:20
it still is standing the red marks talking about in terms of speaking touch to the
00:24:25
chinese about you know then integrating and certain in certain climate and and they're kind of
00:24:33
has their performance behaviour had parameters in exchange for like debt forgiveness
00:24:39
why shouldn't impact investors when they're coming to the negotiation table looking in a business
00:24:44
hello was you know providing some sort of incredible mechanism for preserving nature
00:24:50
or for our coming up with something that is zero car then
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why shouldn't we integrate the same logic into some of their negotiation we do
00:25:00
i tables even in private equity so i i it makes me think about
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some of these aspects have you know the tools that
00:25:08
we have at our disposal and again the appraisal lands that
00:25:13
we use and then how it is that we think we've actually done a good job at the end of the day
00:25:19
and yeah i'm not really answering the questions images posing you more questions nicola
00:25:24
that was the thing to write i i think that's exactly what what's expected here uh uh
00:25:29
money though you you want to react to them and i'm thinking about like i mean that
00:25:33
questions we ask right and honest conversation we have about these questions because we think that it's
00:25:39
harder situation we're going through right now with
00:25:41
with fashion ukraine right if fifteen twenty years ago
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they hear hands you know as your plans we had asked ourselves
00:25:50
the question have what was the relative cost over the long term
00:25:56
i've diverse define our energy grade instead of going to the cheapest provider of energy out there
00:26:04
i have the consequences of funding some of the world's most autocratic regimes
00:26:11
not me into them over the last decades because it was cheaper to do sell tend
00:26:17
to have an honest conversation at that address the finer grades where would we be today
00:26:22
and this is not a sovereign level and so the responsibility i feel really strongly you can probably hear that i
00:26:29
i think we are all responsible there is a tendency in our market say to kind of trying thing or point
00:26:36
its finances part yes big companies multinationals
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part it's the government's parts we're all responsible
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and we need to look at the positive extra nowadays of what we do that we need to also have a very
00:26:49
honest conversation and lands on then i get extra realities of
00:26:52
what we're doing as business as an as human beings and
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and that's what i think regulation can help i think that's where these conversations and building bridges out and had to respond to
00:27:01
that because i think it's exactly what you're saying and instead of
00:27:04
lands that needs to happen in investment certainly but beyond as well
00:27:09
sorry oh yeah first of all you shouldn't be sorry uh
00:27:13
that's exactly what uh uh the spirit of this plan abuse
00:27:17
and that's exactly the sort of conversation we need to half we need to be honest
00:27:21
and i think we need to show not just a whole lot to just a kind of analysis
00:27:26
we we may have to show our passion of a certain degree you for fashion for what we're doing
00:27:32
five you uh you you're nonverbal communication is pretty clear yeah exactly and that's exactly what i want
00:27:39
five no you always want to deployment uh because i think it's still too that a lot of people
00:27:45
thinking that says double fine and sword integration of huge is is is bullshit or doesn't mean much right
00:27:52
um and i think there's still a lot of people but well that's changes that more more people are
00:27:58
integrating these factors thinking that it can reduce the
00:28:01
risks and and that drives them into a new perspective
00:28:06
from short to the term is a much to longer term them and and um and that that's a that's an a
00:28:13
mover in our regulation is is imposing to think about this
00:28:19
so i think the consideration of risk it was the first
00:28:23
a slow revolution that has happened in finance and it's still happening
00:28:27
but is it does the second one i think for me that these
00:28:30
key and i've seen this coming from these development finances to doesn't fifteen
00:28:36
uh paris agreement and the notion of emergency and that that that um
00:28:44
that has a direct impact on your feelings or on your emotion your view et
00:28:48
cetera and and that has changed a lot and is these these these consideration of emergency
00:28:55
as change something that is very important impact investing is the the commitment
00:29:01
you need to understand the risk you you know in a then you need
00:29:04
to to to commit to something and and and that commitment is changing a lot
00:29:10
and we can see this with the next generation the new generation it's either to use
00:29:15
you can see 'em you can see that is moving in you see the bankers now are
00:29:20
asking for for more because the clients are asking for more it's like a postal of things were
00:29:25
people were spread the and and now they're they're going into a together
00:29:30
maybe the last thing i want to say also up on
00:29:32
switzerland and what i see today yeah uh is that it's we
00:29:38
we we see that it's not the problem of of finance it's
00:29:43
the problem of of everyone civil society but also the the um
00:29:46
the the the multinationals and and you can see today especially in switzerland there is a growing
00:29:53
uh i'm notion of for the suisse valley on on on on everything related to food or
00:29:59
because nist issued off human issue are not only pushing into innovation no but also talking together
00:30:05
they're created the the labs that are uh talking to it if uh
00:30:11
uh in zurich the it the ash is is probably the
00:30:14
the the loudest incubator in that field or in the world
00:30:18
so that means that this uh there's a common sense that's what someone can
00:30:22
interact collaborate bridger and and and raise ticket system power that we have today
00:30:29
and and this is very important and that comes i think more
00:30:32
from this feeling of emergency and anything else radiant thank you so
00:30:36
much marked your your your nonverbal languages pretty clear to so you
00:30:40
have to work but if if needed so let me the i mean
00:30:48
there's been this incredible evolution in in nature fine that's uh that's tract
00:30:52
of course income a bit later than the general interest unsustainable finance but
00:30:57
it started with have we get more money in to consideration private is a major priorities
00:31:01
that it went into well there are lots of elements that need
00:31:04
to come into place before before nature finance can become a mainstream thing
00:31:08
and now at the point where in fact is
00:31:11
an extraordinary positive opportunity because they're merging major markets
00:31:15
and they're incredible opportunities to invest shape them
00:31:20
and then invested them so what we want to do i think there are a common challenge here is to say
00:31:26
happily in the geneva it the system uh get through that transition as quickly as possible so that we
00:31:32
are taking advantage of extraordinary uh opportunities out there
00:31:37
i think the panel the the pitches before lunch demonstrated
00:31:41
the cost whatever wide spectrum innovation is taking place i mean this this is and if it
00:31:46
you asked why isn't hasn't gone farther than has my answer is that it's still an from it it's new it's a
00:31:53
you know what we were dealing with micro finance years ago we
00:31:56
had to learn learn the business and then that is is became mainstream
00:32:00
we're going to this is that it can sit major finance but we don't have a lot of time my point though is that uh
00:32:06
i i think that we only unique situation here in geneva and no other place that i can think of on this
00:32:13
has a different pieces that if we put them together cleverly can really make the age if you need a
00:32:18
leader in the space and i think the three things that we need probably one is is that we need
00:32:24
to network we need to work together so the geneva ecosystem
00:32:28
building bridges community all of this has to get stronger and tighter
00:32:33
and communicate more work together more because that is the absolute foundation
00:32:38
we need continued content creation we don't have answers on all the state so when it comes to data other
00:32:43
guess when it comes a taxonomy that gas when it comes to the standard is they're not they're not broadly accepted
00:32:49
yet so we have to continue in this sort of content creation mote which i think we can do here the
00:32:54
thirty and i mean this is probably the most important
00:32:57
piece we need to get it take this into the market
00:33:02
we need to turn this into services for investors you wanna go in this direction
00:33:07
to answers to to to to approaches to partnerships
00:33:11
yeah but take this whole thing for and help shape the market so
00:33:15
we wanna play into it so i think if you take those three together
00:33:19
and imagine how jenny that could address the string in a coordinated fashion i think there's an opportunity
00:33:24
that you know working with thirty nine financial centres around the world i don't see anybody else competing yeah
00:33:30
and particularly no one's like london the flow problem thank you so much mark
00:33:35
uh you you're you're you're you're take leads me back to to fabio quickly to
00:33:40
have a lot of time left with but all i'd like to like to revert
00:33:45
back to build a grid use a a system files you need has been uh
00:33:50
our coordinator we've been so many stakeholders involved uh in creating
00:33:55
a building bridges uh you have been kindly coordinating our efforts thank
00:34:00
you so much without uh you and obviously to the whole
00:34:04
team which is doing an amazing job on on on this uh
00:34:08
what thirteen grieves other steamy scene to to to get to
00:34:12
the next stage i mean we're we're in the process of creating
00:34:15
the the twenty twenty two would you shouldn't to change the governance but what what about the the sort of key things if i would give you a
00:34:22
you know why i'm i'm magic stick a bit like like
00:34:25
a hurry a proper what would you want a okay um
00:34:32
it reminds me something that in my experience in micro
00:34:36
finance you see yeah i remember it took me ten years
00:34:41
to to go from and a nice idea that everyone everyone was saying that's great
00:34:46
amazing what you're doing you're travelling you go and and
00:34:49
push capital were no or it were a word needs to
00:34:54
but the connection between the reality of us it managers and the
00:34:59
the project was not there and and so first
00:35:02
of all we had to convince the asset manager that
00:35:07
the risk was not as high as the the the this thought any to cost ten
00:35:12
years to show that the track record actually was so good after ten years the certainly
00:35:18
uh uh an argument to invest in no we can't wait so if you what we we we
00:35:24
need to understand the reality of asset manager because i don't know any asset louder that says i
00:35:30
don't want to lose a suitable findings are caught i don't want to invest in nature everyone would
00:35:34
love to do that but there's there's a relative scale does the relative risk does a ready t. of
00:35:40
of um of many different things so so i think we need to hear rapidly
00:35:46
to better understand into connected to showcase what can happen and i think that's the
00:35:52
i would say one of the big objective for for for uh for next build the bridges because
00:35:58
um the momentum is so good uh that bankers are willing
00:36:02
now to change or framework of analysis to accelerate the transition
00:36:07
and and there's a lot of concentration into
00:36:11
list listed assets on markets that provides liquidity
00:36:15
because unless about what does you uh my clients one liquidity accounting that's ten years
00:36:20
in something out on all the risk another if i i'm gonna see my money
00:36:24
and and that's ninety percent of the money you know and specially with private banks
00:36:29
so so there's a lot of education of discussion uh to to to find the right
00:36:34
framework and that i come back to the expertise to switzerland where we've been working in
00:36:40
so call blended finance or or or mechanism where you can
00:36:45
reduce the risk and and and work a little bit to
00:36:47
the different risk appetites and and that's definitely a solution so
00:36:51
if i could if i could hope for something is is that
00:36:55
everyone takes the time to better understand each other because we all need to go
00:37:01
fast in in the solution that and that's why we need everyone all around the table
00:37:06
thank you so much of of you before coming back to to agree to talk about one um one
00:37:12
new solution which is emerging the region you was well i'd like to just
00:37:15
rebound on what you would use uh the uh of of you uh uh
00:37:19
in terms of what's happening within the ecosystem in in in banks and you
00:37:24
spoke about education i think the jobs are changing today in banks a mario
00:37:30
my question to you is is going to be a fairly
00:37:32
direct wanna apologies for top but could could nature and biodiversity
00:37:37
finance become a major topic uh for pete to in the future and if yes
00:37:42
which practical resistance is or challenges do you want to see paid
00:37:46
you need you need to solve because i think that's that's really what
00:37:50
to certain extent i can interpret from from what what you said i think
00:37:53
and i was getting taken after you and and you said a lot of what
00:37:57
i wanted to go and play it if you you mentioned is that when i mean integrate markets right we need to have the solutions in the market that
00:38:05
those solutions will be born from what you were saying witches awareness awareness awareness is very few people out
00:38:11
there that will tell you i don't wanna do nature positive like low carbon investing right the problem is
00:38:17
this is a new language for like the people in this room
00:38:21
that sustainability professionals it's it's kind of our day to day right
00:38:25
then that you already have asset managers this is not their language they just don't
00:38:30
have the understanding the knowledge needed or not now it in any way that it's
00:38:34
very practical for that and i think this is the biggest challenge you mentioned last
00:38:39
inequities my biggest challenge i think over the next decade is how do we get
00:38:43
to the same level of capital redirection we had into mike strategies liquid market water clean you
00:38:49
know clean energy global environmental opportunities get on well over a billion invested in the stock market
00:38:55
how do we get that across other asset classes extent can private
00:38:59
markets across the really stay as a tragic transition our built environment
00:39:03
eight to twenty fifty and we need new modes of financing new infrastructure and
00:39:08
that will only emerge from different types of people talking to the financial industry
00:39:15
also with the and their their lingo nine so we need to build
00:39:18
those language bridges as well and so that is that that is the challenge
00:39:23
you guys that is really that's basic education piece i'm not just like
00:39:28
a bunch of convinced people talking to each other about how this is great
00:39:32
because i don't know how many bankers there are in this room and anchors are in this room is enhanced
00:39:38
ah okay yes and that's not professionals one one right so how do we brain these topics ends
00:39:45
you main strain investment professionals behind you know i need to take into account klein it because if i
00:39:50
don't you know take into account the physical risk of that asset and invested in you know in thirty
00:39:55
years it's gonna be a problem because it's sitting in miami right so we need to go beyond that
00:40:00
and it is conversations that are going on um yearly
00:40:06
like week in week out not just once a year
00:40:09
unseen you exactly one one so you really really really
00:40:13
better able to speak about the outsides right exactly bases
00:40:17
where jeannie that has that a role to play that has we have so many of these different actors concentrated in in a
00:40:23
really small kind of the big guys like that's not the case and it's it's really small international say yeah it's very very good
00:40:30
facilitation for you but i just have another good that is interesting um my new
00:40:35
product is about investing in nature based companies or start up so it's about risk
00:40:41
the don't like risk the bankers right oh and do one
00:40:44
investing into this our venture capital is so people that are
00:40:48
no big cowboy is the the take the risk and and uh you
00:40:52
know they're engaging in their investments that are so when you go recordings
00:40:57
uh and and see a a banker's this to uh i'll i
00:41:00
would love but icons i mean no one will accept that risk
00:41:04
i wanna say yeah but it's about impact is about changing it's
00:41:07
about nature to try and certainly ah yeah okay so the fourth because
00:41:12
of that reason no uhuh i'm interested to listen to you and and
00:41:15
that's what example had them a few weeks ago bankers in a bank
00:41:20
not yours telling me look my clients are interested we would
00:41:25
love to do that but our gate keeper will never allow me
00:41:31
or you to come and and be in the list of of promoted phones by the bank but
00:41:37
as we want things to change or i'll i'll put in
00:41:40
contact with my because kinds because if they invest without our advisory
00:41:47
did we show that actually that's a good example so ah i
00:41:50
say this because i think this notion of emergency is changing now
00:41:54
and and and people i willing now to change anything because it's ready
00:41:59
to be to be to be to be assembled the uh what's fascinating
00:42:04
it's around this whole conversation of risk taking to be at least certainly is we're in
00:42:09
a period where the world is changing extremely fast and to me perhaps the biggest risk
00:42:15
is not to take enough of risk because we can't just go on with the way we have been going on for
00:42:21
and and and so we we need that acceleration i know you want to wall to work uh but first i need to
00:42:29
the uh got another challenge all the all the all the um him i'm we're a democracy here
00:42:35
well there has spoken less than the others uh well the
00:42:39
why don't you just give a a micro preach on it
00:42:42
quickly for humanity a project you have been following closely in
00:42:45
which is emerging in jean yves on which is really focusing
00:42:49
on on on sort of the the dynamics a change she we
00:42:52
need to parody come shifts that we know the drop with audrey
00:42:56
i'm in this is so i couldn't for humanity as a concept
00:42:59
in projects that many of us here in geneva follow and no and
00:43:03
you know any questions come back to us and we can share mark and everything has been
00:43:08
fan here is in resonates deeply he sure is that in our existing market as we are
00:43:15
formulated everybody is in it for themselves when it's
00:43:20
not it's i totally agree on having standardised vocabulary
00:43:24
uh and a big fan obviously is standard i think they're the
00:43:27
diligence method then having benchmarks and what's inappropriate premium and what's inappropriate upside
00:43:33
level and how you value of business properly if it is indeed an intervention has some sort of
00:43:40
how is it in a positive extra now adding in in in in each context on wonderful that
00:43:46
i'm not sure that their response and evoke had any
00:43:49
responses emergency contexts that you refer to five you know
00:43:54
and the vocabulary is enough i don't know how many of you guys start don't look at the documentary right
00:44:01
biggest emergency in well and there's some people who choose not to see
00:44:04
it because it's not in their interest in their manipulate start is to say
00:44:09
right exactly t. for humanity command in a structural reconfiguration an
00:44:14
opportunity to realign steak or there is even if it's in
00:44:19
temporary structures it could be literally like virtual temporary s. t.
00:44:24
v.s for a period of two years five it doesn't matter
00:44:28
if we have shared mission and there's sixty five and nice looking
00:44:31
at you know it s. particular titans sanitation intervention in eastern india
00:44:38
why can we not ah the only thing kept table and align our efforts and
00:44:43
benefit from the same upside and me and kill the silos that way the only way
00:44:49
as if we transcend the current structures of competition which is the double edged sword
00:44:54
you have any any ecstasy of you know uh_huh capitalism and figure out how
00:44:59
to align and you know that manage these issues of pricing cost now we
00:45:05
and this is the concepts behind essentially in very high level times equity for humanity
00:45:10
can we not create the structure is back there now for the feedback mood setter
00:45:14
intrinsic to the system to tell us what is yeah which didn't get a good evaluation
00:45:20
we think they're independently or vacuums and you can't evaluations
00:45:24
of intervention they're supposedly high impact but asking people riding impacting
00:45:29
no we we asked them don't we we believe what the entrepreneurs tyson we don't validate
00:45:34
there's so many challenges and problems but this is just the tip
00:45:37
of the iceberg i'll stop there thank you thank you so much agreed
00:45:41
i i don't quite know how am i gonna handle the three of you that's exactly uh but you haven't
00:45:47
we all have our thing or for i mean as a child is a good uh uh uh uh mark
00:45:52
i make a very very quickly one because my hero agreed to to have you for going across a
00:45:59
quick point it there's an regular expression that says if you don't know where you're going any rubble take it
00:46:05
uh i think we need to set a very high ambitions like a
00:46:08
ambition level and then figure out how we uh the the pathway towards it
00:46:13
so my high ambition level is that within a
00:46:15
few years uh investing in a way that undermines nature
00:46:20
will be created the way we we treat child
00:46:23
labour in him companies today slave labour it'll simply
00:46:27
become unacceptable because there's a new social norm that's in place that simply doesn't except that our planet is
00:46:34
is is is a undermined to to make money but let me we've been talking all about
00:46:39
private sector activity here and there's a big public sector piece here is not just landed and finance
00:46:45
i know you want for the to for the canton geneva i know that you're not hearing it fast the as a representative of the content
00:46:52
but you know this is gonna happen if the public sector that's all the behind if it can't under geneva that meant that
00:46:59
city engineer but we have a former mayor of of geneva sit in the
00:47:02
audience you hear from later um the confederation as part of the the the strategy
00:47:08
to promote international geneva this all has to come into place so that the
00:47:12
rest can also gel and i and i and i would like to ask you
00:47:17
where do you think the public sector third is are on this agenda uh they uh they behind
00:47:22
the the back to get behind it uh because if they're not then i think we have a problem
00:47:27
i i think again i i cannot speak for the minister my mister but uh but from what i
00:47:33
heard in from what you were because of the role she's pretty she's been a year us the ring
00:47:38
uh i think there is a a very significant support the uh for this uh
00:47:43
for this direction of travel and what think rages media a fundamentally use the lazy
00:47:49
very strong alignment uh when i speak with the older people in in in the public sector
00:47:56
we we we we've spoken a lot about how to create leverage here
00:48:01
essentially uh the the problems are exponential a lot of them or exponential
00:48:06
an hour responses to certain extent have been logarithmic that's that's the issue we have to fix
00:48:12
and the the public sector uh how's the capacity to really
00:48:17
in in and to make a big difference if it acts on
00:48:22
a few a key a key levers um uh we spoke
00:48:26
good just before a word this morning a in in the pictures
00:48:30
uh about a green and and social uh public procurement
00:48:35
public procurement fifteen to twenty five percent of g. d. p. in every country
00:48:40
i think about what it means if uh there is a very clear commitment
00:48:47
for every tender to ask for anybody who wants
00:48:51
to to get into this competition to get up contract
00:48:54
to to to to to be use g. compliant with very clear criteria is attached
00:49:01
this is making a very big difference same thing with with with green and social
00:49:06
bones for instance geneva has been leading the way you in switzerland and they have
00:49:12
no more they have to be more conversations around also again at
00:49:16
the end of the day my conviction personally is not the problem
00:49:21
is by far too important to be solved by any stakeholder alone
00:49:27
this is not going to be sold to me by the government's it's only gonna be solved by
00:49:33
the private sector we will have to truly as i said this morning do these p. p. p. square
00:49:39
public private partnerships for planet people and prosperity
00:49:45
we need to six peas in there that's that's that's in my opinion
00:49:50
the way forward and as as you said mark i if if one
00:49:55
of the uh a stakeholder is is missing at the table
00:50:00
i think we're gonna fall short so that's that's my a very short answer um
00:50:05
you wanted to add something uh and then fall view perhaps uh
00:50:10
if if you if you feel you need to have them all
00:50:12
twenty second he you can get the floor block and i'm going yeah
00:50:18
i get into trouble with you organise is but hey that's life yeah and it said i learned
00:50:24
that have uh one of the things that they they had a set out right i think incentives matter
00:50:29
enormous right incentives to make the world go round spain make banks go
00:50:34
around any companies go around and incentives today are designed for the short term
00:50:40
because the and and in fact when people are trying to get more money
00:50:43
today it's usually thinking about retirement right because they don't wanna be in trouble
00:50:47
twenty years down the line when they're no longer useful to society
00:50:50
working right setting incentives are massively important i think building bridges should
00:50:55
actually be tackling difficult topics like aren't aunts and incentives very specifically
00:51:00
throughout the system and the incentives and collaboration the incentives and valuing
00:51:05
things properly water is one example but there are many other things on the human side as well which we
00:51:10
often neglected where did you guys very strong and so incentives are also absolutely key thank you so much for you
00:51:20
what what what you want to quit and also because i forgot
00:51:27
well i i think we need more of this this type of rigs size and and
00:51:33
because we need to showcase that discussion
00:51:36
can happen and and indeed to something concrete
00:51:40
and that's why we need to interact uh i think yeah it would be good good to have the bankers and and to understand why
00:51:46
or how we can attract and i think that's one of the challenge uh the bridges it was initially to have the bankers on board
00:51:53
because otherwise it's it's a store i type discussion right
00:51:57
because the government say uh would like to have the isn't
00:52:00
just decision we don't have the support so sober where is the money
00:52:04
and uh but we need to understand the money right and and asset murders
00:52:07
need to be in the room when we discussed this but we also need to understand
00:52:11
how they allocate the money and and what's the problem is the control located centrally so
00:52:17
right yeah yeah settling or the other night that yeah yeah yeah yeah and one big piece this year um the
00:52:23
the us at all or have a more much more room to invest into more risk but don't take it yet
00:52:31
so so that's a big big question why why do you need to take more is good are you afraid of something
00:52:37
so so we need to put pressure incentives in the senate is there anyone that is you know and it's also how i write how they're
00:52:43
regulated the asset owners as well like how their exact eyes to take
00:52:46
risk or not right on behalf of all the last part and dance
00:52:50
these are these are all incentives baked into this this and then
00:52:53
in capitalist stock right now oh yeah and and and just one thing
00:52:58
uh we have engine you the biggest supporters league one possible supposedly uh uh
00:53:04
it's a trial they have a lot of money so how can we put pressure and it's a simple thing
00:53:08
we were almost all of you here or employees engine you know we we we are we have a vote
00:53:14
we we we have a voting rights we can go there asked them what what
00:53:17
the hell are you doing we are the asset and exactly but that's very important because
00:53:24
we were discussing the services you how can we we mobile is the community that the committee is people
00:53:30
yeah because we are actually part even if it's that smaller just that wonders
00:53:36
one second you don't you know only only vote
00:53:41
thirty seconds for you to conclude denmark and then we go on going actually i'm i'm trying to
00:53:47
i'm alright yeah i i think this is that the ice there i can really fancy anselm match my
00:53:54
now add details clinics to actually dissecting deconstruct what some of
00:54:00
the incentives in structures and opportunities are here in geneva and
00:54:04
make necromancer then the next next time we convene perhaps and this is this is one of the things i don't know
00:54:11
ah i don't want to to summarise what what's been uh uh
00:54:18
express your i don't think the reason you need because everybody has been speaking incredibly clearly
00:54:24
uh and the whole thing indeed uh brings different pieces of the puzzle together
00:54:29
but what i'd like to say here is i think it's been a it's spectacular demonstration
00:54:34
of what happens when you try to create a collective intelligence
00:54:41
what i've heard here would not have happened if
00:54:44
we would have heart conversations with each of them bilaterally
00:54:48
having more of us together here on the stage give us you
00:54:52
put you need to do much further and and that's exactly what
00:54:55
i wanted what i want now from you is too well for them if you're drawing of a prose because they have been pretty
00:55:03
ah
Conference Program
Forum Introduction
Vincent Nassar, "Innovate 4 Water" Association
March 2, 2022 · 9:01 a.m.
898 views
Welcome address
Gérard Luyet, Services Industriels de Genève
March 2, 2022 · 9:07 a.m.
105 views
Highlight WIPO GREEN
Anja Van der Ropp, Senior Program Coordinator, WIPO GREEN
March 2, 2022 · 9:14 a.m.
170 views
Highlight -- Geneva Chamber of Commerce, Industry and Services
Pauline Zahlaoui, Responsable Membres et Partenariats
March 2, 2022 · 9:20 a.m.
245 views
Session 1 - Efficient Solutions with the Solar Impulse Label
Guillaume Féry, Advisory Expert for the World Alliance for Efficient Solutions
March 2, 2022 · 9:27 a.m.
Osmosun: Renewable powered water treatment solutions
Quentin Ragetly, Head of Business Development, Mascara
March 2, 2022 · 9:36 a.m.
Hydrao: smart solutions for water conservation
Eric Burkel, Co-founder & Head of International Strategy & Development, Hydrao
March 2, 2022 · 9:43 a.m.
Ozone Strong Water
Ivan Pajolli, Application Engineer, Air Liquide
March 2, 2022 · 9:49 a.m.
121 views
WATA, for water treatment and disinfection
Marc-Antoine Menneguerre, Chief Business Officer, WATA
March 2, 2022 · 9:56 a.m.
189 views
Sustainable and resilient rural water supply services in Sahel
Thierry Barbotte, CEO, UDUMA
March 2, 2022 · 10:01 a.m.
Session 1 end - Efficient Solutions with the Solar Impulse Label
March 2, 2022 · 10:06 a.m.
Adeo & the Solar Impulse Foundation - home solutions with a positive impact on the environment.
Pauline Michiels, Innovator Relation - Outreach Team, Solar Impulse Foundation
March 2, 2022 · 10:07 a.m.
Highlight - R20 – Regions of climate action
Melchior de Muralt, Managing Partner, de Pury Pictet Turrettini & Cie
March 2, 2022 · 11 a.m.
Investing in Nature-based Solutions
Gerard Bos, Directo Sustainability and Innovation, IUCN
March 2, 2022 · 11:07 a.m.
Fund certification
Margaret Kim, CEO, Gold Standard
March 2, 2022 · 11:12 a.m.
212 views
Subnational Climate Fund
David Albertani, CEO, R20 - Regions of Climate Action
March 2, 2022 · 11:20 a.m.
109 views
Nereid Water
Huy Ton That, Nereid Water
March 2, 2022 · 11:37 a.m.
317 views
Panel discussion - Session 2 - Blended Finance for Infrastructure Investment
March 2, 2022 · 11:43 a.m.
Highlight - Water and Impact Funds - Tameo
Ramkumar Narayanan, Tameo
March 2, 2022 · 12:01 p.m.
Thank you to our partners
Vincent Nassar, "Innovate 4 Water" Association
March 2, 2022 · 1:29 p.m.
Highlight - Cluster Eau Evian Lémanique
Jean-Luc Favre, Board Member, Cluster Eau Evian Lémanique
March 2, 2022 · 1:33 p.m.
Highlight - Aqua-Valley
Sylvain Boucher, President, Aqua-Valley
March 2, 2022 · 1:38 p.m.
Session 3 - Sustainable water management for a food secure future - Introduction
Chris Thomas, Marketing and communication, AQUA4D
March 2, 2022 · 1:44 p.m.
Irrigation technologies and innovations in water treatment - Netafim France
Joël Lapicque, Business Development, Netafim France
March 2, 2022 · 1:46 p.m.
Climate-smart technology for plant monitoring reacting to water stress - 2Grow
Olivier Begerem, Sales Director, 2Grow
March 2, 2022 · 1:52 p.m.
AQUA4D sustainable business development in LatinAmerica OK
Felipe Villarino, IST Group - CEO
March 2, 2022 · 1:58 p.m.
Agriculture project monitoring for soil salinization and water retention in the soil OK
Kathleen Glass, AquaSpy U.S. - VP Marketing
March 2, 2022 · 2:09 p.m.
Panel discussion - Session 3 - Sustainable water management for a food secure future
March 2, 2022 · 2:16 p.m.
Introduction - Session 4 - Driving an Aquapreneur Revolution
John Dutton, Head of UpLink
March 2, 2022 · 3:01 p.m.
UpLink introduction
Anna Huber, UpLink Curator, WEF
March 2, 2022 · 3:03 p.m.
Forum Project: Plastic with oceans / freshwater
Roisin Greene, Engagement Manager, WEF - Global Action Plastics Partnership
March 2, 2022 · 3:10 p.m.
Seed Next Generation Living
Sarah Schalles, Director, Seed Next Generation Living
March 2, 2022 · 3:21 p.m.
106 views
Soilify - Earthanalytics
Michael Anthony, Co-Founder, Soilify - Earthanalytics
March 2, 2022 · 3:27 p.m.
MyEasyFarm
François Thierart, MyEasyFarm - President
March 2, 2022 · 3:32 p.m.
Panel discussion - Session 4 - Driving an Aquapreneur Revolution
March 2, 2022 · 3:38 p.m.
Keynote - Fabienne Fischer
Fabienne Fischer, Conseillère d'Etat, Republic and Canton of Geneva
March 2, 2022 · 4:07 p.m.
Klewel, the webcasting company
Maël Guillemot, Klewel
March 2, 2022 · 5 p.m.
Introduction - Session 5 - Blue Economy - ESG Smart Investment Platform
Derek Queisser de Stockalper, President, Swiss Chapter, Fondation Prince Albert II de Monaco
March 2, 2022 · 5:03 p.m.
132 views
Seaweed revolution
Vincent Doumeizel, Senior Advisor - Ocean & Food, United Nations Global Compact
March 2, 2022 · 5:07 p.m.
161 views
Linking Blue Ecosystem with Blue Finance - the Aspban case
Ruben Eiras, Secretary General, Forum Oceano
March 2, 2022 · 5:13 p.m.
NOAH ReGen
Irene Carrasco, Senior Innovation Strategist, NOAH ReGen
March 2, 2022 · 5:18 p.m.
Development of a Centralized Digital platform for the Blue value chain as a current solution
Paul Holthus, CEO, World Ocean Council
March 2, 2022 · 5:24 p.m.
ESG Certified Smart Investment Platform - NOAH ReGen
Frédéric Degret, CEO, NOAH ReGen
March 2, 2022 · 5:30 p.m.
147 views
Panel discussion - Session 5 - Blue Economy - ESG Smart Investment Platform
March 2, 2022 · 5:36 p.m.
Day 1 conclusions
Vincent Nassar, "Innovate 4 Water" Association
March 2, 2022 · 6:04 p.m.
Opening Day 2 of the forum - A perspective, finance and water
Audrey Selian, Rianta Capital - Artha Platform - Head of Group ESG & Stewardship
March 3, 2022 · 8:30 a.m.
Session 6 - The case of Accelerate2030 catalyzing solutions for the SDGs
March 3, 2022 · 8:38 a.m.
Geneva Ecosystem Opportunities
Morgane Loisel, I-Gravity - Impact investing and innovative financing
March 3, 2022 · 8:40 a.m.
UNDP's investor Maps
Eva Bortolotti, UNDP Geneva - Finance Sector Specialist
March 3, 2022 · 8:45 a.m.
109 views
Accelerate2030: Connecting the Geneva ecosystem with entrepreneurial solutions for the SDGs
Ljupka Mitrinovska, Accelerate 2030 - Co-founder and Global Program Manager
March 3, 2022 · 8:51 a.m.
Green bond investment solution
Mauricio Schneider, Solubio - Chief Revenue Officer
March 3, 2022 · 8:59 a.m.
Toilet Board Coalition drives private sector contributions & engagement in SDG6.2
Cinthya Ramirez, Toilet Board Coalition - Independant Director
March 3, 2022 · 9:45 a.m.
Live Clean
Nazir Pandor, Live Clean - Managing Director
March 3, 2022 · 9:50 a.m.
Liquid Gold
Orion Herman, Liquid Gold - CEO - Founder
March 3, 2022 · 9:55 a.m.
European Space Agency
Roberta Mugellesi Dow, European Space Agency - Dow Integrated applications manager
March 3, 2022 · 10:02 a.m.
WoodCo Biosciences
Mark McCarville, WoodCo Biosciences - Project Manager
March 3, 2022 · 10:08 a.m.
Session 7 Debate
March 3, 2022 · 10:15 a.m.
Session 8 introduction - Swiss cross-sectoral collaboration as key for development
Audrey Selian, Rianta Capital - Artha Platform - Head of Group ESG & Stewardship
March 3, 2022 · 11:24 a.m.
Swiss Water Partnership
Frédéric Koehl, Swiss Water Partnership - Steering Board Member
March 3, 2022 · 11:25 a.m.
Swiss Fresh Water
Thomas Gajan, Swiss Fresh Water - CEO
March 3, 2022 · 11:28 a.m.
165 views
Seecon - Driving Change in the Water Sector through Integrity Management
Celia Schmidt, seecon gmbh - Program Manager
March 3, 2022 · 11:34 a.m.
Geneva Water Hub
Noura Kayal, Geneva Water Hub - Lead Diplomatic and International Relationship Specialist
March 3, 2022 · 11:41 a.m.
134 views
Geneva Centre for Security Policy
Marc Finaud, Geneva Centre for Security Policy - Head of Arms Proliferation & Diplomatic Tradecraft
March 3, 2022 · 11:46 a.m.
143 views
