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extent to which technology can and should go in improving
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performance and ability for for if humans athletes all sorts at all levels um we've but
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we've got a very interesting eclectic mix of people to come and talk
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shows about this i'd like to introduce them a straight away
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first of all lights in judgement colours canto about answers they had a metropolitan area i
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ah
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moreover off off off
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so i have a actually i said what she was doing the whole than it did before we
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started i guarantee you a rather welcome as well thanks all of you for joining us
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as i've been saying to all the uh panelists almost all the old one minute
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um pitch i never knew it doesn't well the web pitch off just the
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startup pitch if yesterday but at tell me colours what your doing this tool
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where you fifteen saw what i'm doing here it's a service and uh
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the most primitive way in which we can probably modifier cells in terms of an transom performance which is through attrition
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training so to try to debate with you and with my colleagues here on how can we just
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improve our performance by some vision what the limits of nutrition what's the limits of segmentation
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what can be called hoping really how effective it is versus technology improvements and uh and just
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to see how will be the future steps in this uh in all these areas
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it should it just even describe nutrition as the most primitive when we think of the
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extend to the advances that we see the nutrition over the years protect very much for that um plus all um what do you fit in
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so i'm actually working as a medical doctor primarily some more interested in where we have
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the issues related to sports break this and where to set the limit between uh
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a potential uh let's say these bands or uh
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like muscle balance or uh uh so one between the uh
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that could enhance performance or potentially lead to injuries
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or sometimes lead people to have some build being uh
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uh i choose so clearly that will touch or move into
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the that ethical yeah slightly invisible line which uh we'll
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think perhaps should be clear than it is if they're awake uh or move more what do you do
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simon sports and with to have anything centre of health and performance
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i share similarities response now um i think in our job it's more
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to have that shoe sole quiz that people and just understand okay make an educated then to went there
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what's your limits what do you want an okay then we make it come and decision right
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okay becoming coming to again to find that common decision no wrong you've
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got a a different proposition to trojans really so tell us
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a bit about psi blast on what it is and how it
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works cited slowness or competition for people with their disability
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they're using the latest festive technologies to solve everyday tossed
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and this is very important in this setting so these are not athletes using uh this technology these are really
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people of everyday life with different disabilities so we wanna give there
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their teams developing this if if if technology a platform to showcase their technology we wanna
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also gifted the pilots as we call the users hurt the possibilities to
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to use the technology and showcase them together with the team every band
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and we want to raise awareness uh with this competition with this apparent
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for for the challenges that people with disabilities face in everyday life
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okay i think we have a video to give you wore a
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clear illustration of what side last one is about um like
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a bit more pros that a that's pretty um inspirational stuff like
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you actually don't like to talk about this is all so i mean everything about it feels like a
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sporting arena or sporting event it's it's about the competition
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which drives the the interest in the technology
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exactly so there for the pilots as we call them that participate or not not necessarily athletes
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these are people of everyday life that uh uh wanna use this technology uh in
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future also in their normal daily life but also not only the competition
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so we distinguish a little bit between sports that it's maybe more than daily life
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and uh our competition yeah all will will come on to how that fits in to the the rest of the world at the moment
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but i saw me looking at that just intriguing stuff isn't it very powerful messages about
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what can be done in terms of recording it and design the bodies yet
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i you do with all sorts i mean athletes pulsar
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every regular joes and their desire to enhance
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their own of physical state of well being how how far can go do you think
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well actually um that's a hard question that the first thing i would like to mention that bases that
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it really actually even if you don't feel like it would be if looks like what we do when every
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day clinical routine because i think that's ports may be
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seen as we discussed previously um you could
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you could tell about it as um what you can draw for from
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formula one to your own car in every day i think
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um except uh apart from the side that and uh
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and that competition that i don't have control uh we
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would even want to transfer what comes from athletes
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training or optimisation or how big do in their training
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two sports many scene and even sometimes just for seed in theory people
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notice improve their physical ability so that really looks for disabled people
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as what we do in sports mating everyday we just try to become
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the best from sports science and see how to apply it in
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every day every day life and mister mister x. or y.
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yeah who has a specific goal of said there make it suitable standard knowledge transfer in a way
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that you you have from from the the peaks of the beholder translation of there's opportunities
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um so wrong when you when you walk looking at the competitions and you're
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saying how much advances made huge thanks to the profile the competitions get
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is there any extent to which you you think it's going to fall in terms of double because one
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of the things about at a heightened disabilities is the range the rangers massive isn't it so
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perhaps in other at other fields on the schools they're not gonna cover that range but they could help you
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to build to that to what extent how far did you get so so at the
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moment we don't think that that did not achieve as good that you can go
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uh beyond activities of daily life so it so that you or rather than with the
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their body without disabilities and what you also mention is the the range of
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the people with disabilities and this is very important in our competition
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as we have a lot of technology in it we can define their inclusion
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criteria bits it's broader so it's not like parallel picks where it's really
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uh so that the levels are really this thing so we can thanks to the use of the
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technology but we can make it big brother for example if you are using the wheelchair
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and they're driving it would it be the joystick ye it's not necessarily that uh
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but the paraplegic has more at one th oh
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advantage over the caterpillar cheek but for example
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but still there that we have to deal with these with these rules as well
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and it's also important that there to the teams work together with with the pilots already during
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the development of these technologies because the ranges over also you might test your device it
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one person and then the other person that's that slightly different air impairment and so uh
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it's a different device that you have to develop so it's very important for you you mentioned our little
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picks the and what we don't have a representative of the of the pearly gates on the panel
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one of the great features all the parent big games in london for the twelve was the when which was broadcast
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was by channel four so it was in the b. b. c. production but it was a super uh
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um platform and it was promoting super humans
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uh and that they want people with disabilities these were the on truman given the range
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of what they're able to do and that would make if we go back to
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okay i'll skip the story says i suppose the benchmark the people tended to refer to a that would be a good starting point
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how far do you think is reasonable and wrecked to go in
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technological advance for humans you want so still hold themselves athletes
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i think to draw the line is pretty difficult that's what's correct and what's not
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i want to say is that those guys that suggests it is it's performance i mean what's about the other day
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the thing like being able to open a better because you
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the same efforts as mysterious making his protests is
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to be able to to read because all of the people don't think and most of the people what they don't
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realised that's to the end also actually run or control days
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what the pattern if you know what a control and your brain that has to connect
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with your method to be able to retrain is a huge amount of training hours
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so in that sense the doing the limit how should we replace
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my hands on i raced on my shoulder to be able to swallow faster
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right which is go faster higher each other and and then picked values
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it is very hard to draw the line you know that to say it is to enhance performance that was
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out people to have a goal and to be able to says think into the they they live
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within physical activity to be able to perform in different level from opening a better to so
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and so bad it's it's identical super human uh superiors so i think the correct is
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and a lot of factors that we should really consider into what's cheating what's the boundaries what do we want
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it's it's hard to say this is great this is not it's that whole context that
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it's touching it does have acting nutrition hazards everything that f. e. consents
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fidelity to if i stepped up here the discussion could extend that
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to normal performance of olympics uh invalid became so if you think
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about it one of the major changes for example in streaming
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when it comes to improving the marks was the creation of low friction bodies it's
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which of course are the this catapult that a a drop in the marks of all the customers and the competition
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oh it's in thinking about the apply for example to cycling art in a number of years for example
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if you think about the late late seventies in one hour at the max could run forty nine kilometres
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chris mormon set record at fifty six when they ask him to the same with the
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same bike that inner city twentieth years ago you could only do ten more years
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that i do most of the time so i think that that's a key point that when we compare for example human performance really begins
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how long we wanted all you know not to transform into technological thing is
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that involve you mean you've already proved that it is already corrupted
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in fact 'cause technology didn't start yes then we'll start towards being with
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us forever and so you can never really make fact comparisons
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and i think that's really interesting because then you have to
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wonder why you should never stop technology advancing about soul
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is there ever point which you can't allow humans to
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use technology to further enhance that performance these days
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well actually i think maybe the answer might be within the athletes mine
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finally because i been working with a few foreign weeks and uh
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when you talk with them they just will not be treated like
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real athletes and just be treated like berlin pixels super humans
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so maybe just the e. answer is just asking them do you feel
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that this kind of technology just gives you an unfair advantage uh
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for your compete for your competition partners or even i'm big on him
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able bodied people so because if you just focus on
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technology you you just cannot have a proper answer
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well like you also mention about what was same gallows
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ah it is very difficult to draw a line that because i have
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recently been speaking with the number now which is which was
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a no on antiques women when the olympics in become if it
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was just at at the time of those wait shoots
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it was one of the e. brought the well we go on with the way too it's uh it's
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been a cancelled after one day when they said the this was not a a load anymore
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and you really easy that he was still improving its performance
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um with within the trainee without which it so
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very difficult to find a rival to find what is the real
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advantage of technology okay let me also maybe the final
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first will still be the first it's just at at a different level yeah let me ask you this
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than um roger bannister and that little clip we had from from yeah there's bits allow this
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roger bannister said in his comments really isn't there to did you said there
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was a point which the mines took over the body now full full
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most of us normal for the body takes over the mine doesn't it says i give
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up you can't do it anymore for him it was the other way around
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you refer to brain draping for example as in housing your performance capacity to
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start with a little bit about it and whether you think that is
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fair we're not in a sporting context well these question the seal
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who a matter of debate within the scientific community because it
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just the the first or second year that uh we've been here hearing about that
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it comes from us that works yes comes from research that has that uses some specific electrodes to
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a depressed or increase the complex except exceed ability and
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just improve the neural drive to your muscle
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and there is the white solar scientific evidence that showing that exist size starts
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in the brain and probably partially anything the brain and you if you
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manage to have an upper threshold about that you can improve your performance
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so was there is even that actually now
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an american company selling some legal electrodes
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and that will improve your on your drive and the all muscle performance
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it's not really a easy to if if if
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it really gives and we'll advantage because
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it's been a mainly shown on very analytic movements
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and will not sure that when you're running and very um more complex uh
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action it really gives you an advantage that the there is some
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and thinking that sims site please the or to
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affix use that within the on that now
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but that is not religious it's not refer to brain training or
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brain nutrition is referred to as brain taping yet so the
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ways that there's it's been the arguments being sort of tilted one will the other revenue from what you hear of that
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is that going too far to think in terms of what a excellent does a designer athlete shouldn't
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be that if we're if it so that's okay of preference yeah nice this morning instead
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when the technology we well we overpass the yeah right and i think it's
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just not only about being an x. eight or not is just being again and waited to you transfer the line into
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when it is our buddy who defines it as as a young man out ladies our brain and i thing
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when is changing your own brain connection and that's about for everyone here to ask the question
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how much of humanity do we lose a do we gain by
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using technology and by using this technology how much does it
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take us out of the passion lies or does it enhance the performance in our the beginning like
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the the um that's one yesterday raising his act like for the contest has pitifully
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say okay we can enhance going out to making other people in shadow move
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yes but how much then moving fleas you buy the connecting to an application how much
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doesn't make you anyway so i think it's the exact same question about how athlete
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still gonna be how much during the line we don't know it's still a person has something that
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you have to choose about how much you want to put in except somewhere down the
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line sport has to choose or all the news uh perceive that that's oneself yeah like i
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just put out computer second colours i wanted to touch on nutrition as well but
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wrote your listening to this debate are usually thinking i couldn't care less because it is going to win hearts
00:20:00
what we would call performance someone in your neck of the woods is going to benefit from that
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can you get it uh yes i i wonder if we're talking about the ethics
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it for for athletes something's board i wonder if y'all so perception is
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i don't really care about those ethics because i know who but
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these elements will it haunts some of the people that i represent it's about
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yeah exactly what what we care more about is is the safety and health audience
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when you when you can can gifted people an opportunity to use the technology and
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as long as it is safe and uh i'll see not only for the
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for the people using it are also the people around a round to the users and we're you're totally phone
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again there that people with disabilities they don't have to use the technology in the end so they
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are free to choose not everyone wants to have a robotic prestigious of course yeah so uh
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so we're actually five fine with that yeah if it works that colour see you again you said at the beginning of the most primitive
00:21:06
sort of the technology nutrition i think i'm a development suggest that's not
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necessarily the case it will you tell me about mouth rinsing
00:21:14
as one example of how we're still learning about the way in which nutrition can be used
00:21:20
in association with the brain but tell tell us what my friends it is and whether you think it's
00:21:24
perfectly legitimate so right so uh i will defend or not that's perfectly justified in this case
00:21:30
but uh i think it's it's a good example of how sometimes just the immediate research an intrusion can be later applied
00:21:36
in the in that we not technologically some of anything it's just that comes from the finding
00:21:41
that that people doing short bursts of sport thirty minutes for example actually just by
00:21:46
raising the amount of carbohydrate than just putting it out that that was in often has the performance
00:21:51
until then people thought that this carbohydrates are going to the muscles actually doing the job
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but in fact it was the brain which it is what exactly what some was saying before so then is when it makes sense for
00:22:02
example to the plot a technology that might actually the exactly the same
00:22:05
that this carbohydrates just improve or even more directed more efficiently
00:22:10
and here's one of the thing what's the limit over the are we facing
00:22:13
a second round of the limits that eventually face with nutrition or building
00:22:18
so for example to put it in a really simple way uh i guess a question that are going to
00:22:23
ask anybody here in the audience is uh i don't know how many copies have you taken this morning
00:22:29
but if you have taken a couple or three coffees what you've
00:22:32
would test positive for dropping in any competitions like cycling competitions
00:22:37
so is this truly building just a normal activity like taking coffee just all what we set the limit
00:22:42
and when it goes now to for example develop and all of a
00:22:45
beat a a performance accessories like it can be sued for example
00:22:50
or or just uh for example stimulation of certain parts of the body to improve the performance what
00:22:55
we said that the the other thing is likely line that we can set these these uh
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i would say the mindset of the beast have always been to preserve human performance
00:23:04
in the absence of contamination from authors or uh or emerges from the outside
00:23:09
but here i think will face a another i would say a new era the terms of discussion what's the limit
00:23:15
can can i just ask actually maybe for show of hands who
00:23:19
here believes that issues of taping in uh elite sports
00:23:24
are really important that it really matters to know where the line on taping stands
00:23:29
and who here okay okay and who here thinks that actually these days maybe taping doesn't matter
00:23:36
maybe it should be a free for all got up one one hand over here and i realise that it
00:23:42
was our one hand david you know and maybe who thinks it's some really important question in showbiz
00:23:50
in in showbiz showbiz who cares if any i think
00:23:55
there was a very famous i'm taking cocaine
00:24:00
who thinks croquet that's a bad thing for us for saying this to take or athletes
00:24:04
no one performance up in house together all the different uh um uh style
00:24:09
the normal okay their view on that one way or the other
00:24:12
but i raise the point bernie gonna in a sense it does come back to your school of thought about
00:24:18
yeah technology is moving so fast that in so
00:24:21
many directions it he's almost impossible to police
00:24:26
correctly accurately and and to stay on the line so is that perhaps as a
00:24:32
a field sporting field which says right that anything off limits is fine
00:24:39
it's um i don't really know i don't think there is any place weights actually find it
00:24:45
so hard to have question but i think it's interesting to the maybe thinking of
00:24:51
trying guidelines and two words our sports federation uh in again to commit easily
00:24:57
than in the states just to say okay i do we accept as
00:25:01
being a good minutes oh unacceptable really mean that's with that we that is the time it will change obviously so
00:25:09
that's to so uh i would be like the point on for example people that the fan hoping could
00:25:15
should be allowed then that we should not but then it's it's hard we play the feel even
00:25:19
uh for all the athletes and how what's the for competition or not i think of course with the most
00:25:24
the in famous case and the recent history might be than sense from the france uh where it
00:25:30
he seemed a little sorry sophisticated uh it's it's implementation strategy
00:25:35
and uh so you know way that the team over
00:25:37
powers completely all other competitors every single here
00:25:42
is the for competition for all the other teams that probably cannot afford such sophisticated technology
00:25:47
of buttons or dropping programs and i think use when when we have to think
00:25:51
on what we set the limit really on on how much we
00:25:55
accept the incorporation of technology into the sport at what pace
00:26:01
okay we've got a few minutes left um breaking to get you involved as far
00:26:05
as we can who would like to obstruct question um we have a
00:26:10
mike mike miller from the well the libyans association back to mike morning um right so
00:26:18
sports our rules some respect rules i'm talking about
00:26:22
the soccer ball it's like questions the pros
00:26:26
take a hamster right hamstring injury you can have it surgically worker that's okay
00:26:32
what if you could buy a superior hamster
00:26:36
which worked enhance your performance and you can have a surgical part
00:26:42
is that okay so is it okay you can have operations or
00:26:47
because it also okay for one which is hamstring two point oh
00:26:52
that's off the doctor for the now actually that's an
00:26:55
interesting question because well thinking about that not in term of
00:26:59
surgery but we actually currently e. c. that hand
00:27:04
um the vast latch majority of athletes do
00:27:09
drop were a hamstring injury prevention and
00:27:13
they still have injuries they just train harder so i think they will just
00:27:21
hi i'm believe it if they have surgery to prevent
00:27:24
hamstring injury well sure the performance will improve
00:27:30
the leave it might be the healthy she uh it's very hard to define because the health issue
00:27:37
is not today or tomorrow might be well for hamstring it can be quite quite but
00:27:42
but we're talking about building i've been ten years twenty years of that's a very
00:27:47
hard question to set the limit but regarding the injury rate i think
00:27:54
there's just new performance or new way of playing or running and it's still occurs
00:28:02
unfortunate that that's the doctors also that is isn't it what about
00:28:05
the principle of that but when you think that that
00:28:09
is by all yeah i'm sort of thing isn't it yeah we already is light to give out for heart oh
00:28:16
some ten then fine needs which on that our is that it's enhance
00:28:21
after surgery does it do you go better after your surgery
00:28:24
for example when you have a nice yeah torn you change it within
00:28:28
your one hamstring or some as i mean other than uh
00:28:33
do you bet if f. unless you have fifty percent of people they were fifty percent people they want
00:28:38
is just throwing a kind so if you take in your hands thing of someone that has being
00:28:43
really fast whatever that has very injury you will still have at
00:28:47
the same do we still have to connect with your brain
00:28:49
and i checked it maybe it will maybe it with in that it's very hard
00:28:53
to predict i think it's more but production and i'll carry them on
00:28:57
what's the tenth of the t. c. with his but but sure what should be allowed
00:29:02
it's well how it works or not that is the point yeah well i think it's hard to to say i don't know
00:29:09
i really don't know it's a lot when you get an injury it's that easy that's in
00:29:15
the way of that thought that's i think it's a good question i don't know
00:29:18
this site is the therapeutic use exemption almost isn't it the
00:29:22
t. wheeze come into play animal so technological way
00:29:25
they're all i was saying i mean if you look at the at the proportion of sportsman that asthmatic you would be amazed
00:29:31
so you you cynically uh okay uh i dunno questions yes that chap in the middle thank you
00:29:39
uh hi i'm that's karma also from one it was a question about
00:29:43
the genetic you know that we can change the genetics though
00:29:48
so oh well this should work
00:29:52
it's and i think if i may and because that's one of the thing at thirteen the answers
00:29:57
they have now research at that um they call it the jane
00:30:01
doe place to better a yellow um myself what it
00:30:05
is and and and the fibres to build have most one five is to be able to live stronger and
00:30:12
i think that this is the next generation and i think we will
00:30:16
come very close they already doing and mouses so i think
00:30:20
this is a good question and i find my sense it's chance human that's when change
00:30:25
and why not i think it's maybe it can be maybe less harmful than
00:30:30
that's the methods that are at the end of the day it's your attitude which is yeah as
00:30:35
this is the race is is that's what you get when if it's the
00:30:38
girl it's to win the competition and that's gonna make is living lynette
00:30:43
it doesn't harm your health sort of or another on that point uh i think we're
00:30:47
a bit far yet from what we call that the modification to that's performance
00:30:52
yeah what we can do nowadays and that can be totally doable is that
00:30:55
we we can understand genetic variations that might allow you to for example
00:30:59
better have a better output when it comes to certain supplement patience in terms of uh
00:31:03
for example convince implementation severance implementation we know that certainly doesn't respond better or worse
00:31:09
uh just depending on the genetics and that it's something that nowadays we can utilise and improve performance based on that that's all
00:31:16
yep sure that you shall i only we we have recent research showing that
00:31:21
some specific field types will have a good dancer to caffeine or
00:31:26
uh and some that don't so we can imagine we
00:31:31
might do that for any any carbohydrate or any type
00:31:36
of training to better personalised rainy so these cannon
00:31:42
be seen as a rio a dopey now we need the
00:31:47
the issue might be if you try to change that
00:31:50
but you like very except that might be like train cologne because
00:31:55
maybe that would be worse but says that this is the real challenge yeah the goal posts
00:31:59
move every minutes now but just once a year what it all moving all the time
00:32:04
it if there's another question we're very happy take with just about could squeeze it in with a if there is one
00:32:12
you're gonna be timed out no okay we'll we'll stop that 'cause we're just about up on the clock we're running slightly behind
00:32:18
what again we're just getting carrying on something that would never end is a topic of
00:32:23
conversation thank you very much indeed all four of you ladies and gentleman our panel

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Conference program

Welcome Words by David Eades
David Eades
15 May 2018 · 9:06 a.m.
Welcome Words by Philippe Leuba
Phillipe Leuba, Chef du Département de l'Economie et du Sport
15 May 2018 · 9:08 a.m.
Welcome Words by Grégoire Junod
Grégoire Junod
15 May 2018 · 9:13 a.m.
Welcome Words by Benoit Mariani
Benoit Mariani
15 May 2018 · 9:15 a.m.
Hacking the Future
Andy Walshe
15 May 2018 · 9:25 a.m.
Talkback Session: Smart Venues, Moderated by David Eades
Daniel Marion, John Rhodes, Claire Lewis
15 May 2018 · 10:18 a.m.
Talkback Session: Wearables and Data, Moderated by David Eades
Terho Lahtinen, Jean-Christophe Longchampt, Christophe Ramstein, Patrick Schoettker
15 May 2018 · 11:04 a.m.
Talkback Session: Fans and Data, Moderated by Rebecca Hopkins
Horesh Ben Shitrit, Pete Burns, David Lampitt, Clemens Schnellert
15 May 2018 · 11:46 a.m.
Interviews, Moderated by David Eades
Stéphane Guerry, Joey Tan, Olivier Glauser, Albert Mundet
15 May 2018 · 1:45 p.m.
Talkback Session: Machine Learning and AI, Moderated by Jay Stuart
Nicolas Chapart, Nicolas Déal, Johan Vounckx, Mehrsan Javan
15 May 2018 · 2:37 p.m.
Speech
Jochen Färber
15 May 2018 · 3:14 p.m.
Talkback Session: NextGen Video & Engagement, Moderated by Nicolas Henchoz
Christoph Heimes, Spencer Nolan, Pedro Presa, Alexandra Willis
15 May 2018 · 3:30 p.m.
Interview on Security
Earl Crane
15 May 2018 · 4:08 p.m.
Talkback Session: Cyber security and Digital Security, Moderated by Sébastien Kulling
Dang Duy, Thomas Shorrock, Jean-Pierre Hubaux, Simon Trudelle
15 May 2018 · 4:19 p.m.
Introduction of Day 2
David Eades
16 May 2018 · 9:35 a.m.
Social Business and Sport
Muhammad Yunus
16 May 2018 · 9:38 a.m.
Talkback Session: Designer Bodies - Yes or No? Moderated by David Eades
Roland Sigrist, Vincent Gremeaux, Carlos Canto Alvarez, Véronique Lugrin
16 May 2018 · 10:27 a.m.
Talkback Session: Designing for the Future, Moderated by Jay Stuart
Ali Russell, Emilio Risques, Véronique Michaud, Thilo Alex Brunner
16 May 2018 · 11:08 a.m.
Talkback Session: Protection through Innovation, Moderated by Mike Miller
Liam Mc Tiernan, Laurent Mekies, Eric Nauman, Martial Saugy, Mathieu Saubade
16 May 2018 · 12:04 p.m.
From Racing to the Road
Laurent Mekies
16 May 2018 · 1:32 p.m.
Talkback Session: Understanding the eSports Ecosystem, Moderated by Jay Stuart
Brent Barry, Anna Baumann, Julien Delalande, Michael Journot, Carlos "ocelote" Rodriguez Santiago
16 May 2018 · 2:05 p.m.
Talkback Session: What's next in eSports? Moderated by Lars Stegelmann
Brett Abarbanel, Stefan Kuerten, Jan Pommer, Federico Winer
16 May 2018 · 3:05 p.m.
Closing Words
David Eades
16 May 2018 · 4:06 p.m.

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