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Panel discussion: Sex effects on the regulation of brain function and disease manifestation – Towards gender medicine in neuroscience
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Tuesday, Dec. 12, 2017 · 10:14 a.m. · 17m 35s
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part of the charger with all these and ah um well thank you thank you all
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i had a great time listening to you uh i've learned a lot and uh
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i think they they have several themes that have up email or usually we
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have here about of move people differences between uh men and women
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of male and female at different levels right from their faculty big presentation
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responses to treatment a preschool the c. d.'s et cetera et cetera
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but my impression has been that they maybe then this is much better at the population level
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and then us as you begin to to athens
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it yeah that in that uh one of course uh carl you
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mention um about the difficulties in the sun timing uh
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sex and gender from the kind of dynamic perspective on dynamic perspective of the population stars
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but um my impression was that actually the sex and gender difference that becomes even more difficult
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are they physiological logo molecular level i'm solo um so no
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i knew what i
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and i don't know if i don't agree i think that i mean because that's what i do read a workable or animal level and um
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i mean there are clear sex differences and an animal work we don't tech typically
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talk about gender just because other they do has the side is it's over though they don't have you know
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think twice include hallways or anything like that or television anything um but
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so i i i would say that there are quite a few
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sex differences that at the individual well if yeah i i am i i mentioned earlier go um i
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actually think that that's a that's an observation that comes out of what's been presented today but
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um i think it uh i mean i think that i think
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is really strong evidence actually the animal level it's just not
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um it's not the numbers and potentially not so much rap look ability because people
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are using the same large databases we each have our own models et cetera
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um but i think that there's a there's just there's a growing um
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to uh focus in the animal um research groups uh the two
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to begin to kind of piggyback on each other studies in in in
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create these larger differences but we don't working with the same numbers
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that uh epidemiological studies do um so i think it's actually
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animal work is very strong and in some sense
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i think the challenges in understanding mechanism that the clinical level and that's really hard to get at
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so i just i want with the really was the leading to the and this is like that is that
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we've got the descriptive evidence knowledge because that is so
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we've got the uh the courtroom work and uh
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and to some extent a clinical research but i think there
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is a a real lack of and connection between and
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the didn't work when it goes into schools and so on it does your
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with women are high risk uh then everything else control for age
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so we but we basically average age and gender rounds
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of the huge a huge amount of our work
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i just the control before in the way that you were you nicely described earlier so um i think
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it's there's an enormous amount of data no evidence that that that could be drilled into two
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provide much more information which would and inform you more detail or should work as well
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uh_huh i wanna start saying that you know that we all know that uh women when they didn't have been sleeping
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uh they take half that was that's that's and we think it's very it's like you know are done
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a smaller but it turns out that the man how are lower clearance passes
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uh for a true i did it so that the mechanism so that when you look at a pretty knowledgeable or
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sorry level it seems like it but it it is an alignment can about let's
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say it's a it's a clearance capacities different from that which could also white
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sleeping but it's much more clearance defect that production yeah
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so i think we need to we need to go into understanding the mechanism
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uh that could contribute lapping at the moment of your model study itself that's that's that's even if it is it is my
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it's a little or happy happy or this and that brings me to the second
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mother theme that i wanted to highlight after the after your presentation which
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was the one that actually having to us i do mention very clearly which
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is do the dark kind of a call for a better stop
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of of uh researching women one particular window feel model for stoke i'm still grist
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women but um so why such a compelling call for a better start to so what do you mean by that
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no i think yeah uh in stroke uh it at our conferences fun
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we have a session on women than stroke it's kind of
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that more percent my perception no among my calling says that
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that's all that's the women stop section and that's kind
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of a gets a bath stuff that's not one of the top ranking slots and i think we need
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we need to get people who are not necessarily interested in an uh sex and
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gender differences or indices need to get to the interest of people are great
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yeah there's a i mean stroke it's very we've had a very it's been a very big
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progression in our treatment we have happened than last five years there's been large studies on
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removing that often the q. treatment of course that is that is that that is the
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high status if you can say it can be inched uh uh research and
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but i think we also need to get me to get more people interested and then we need to actually we need to
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say that this is important in this is that we need to get that better on the agenda we need to have
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had a and the did the tests lots of the conference and so on i think it's uh i think so i
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guess we're here to understand how we can do that actually how we can disseminate only on how we can make
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uh that people understand that this topic is important perhaps that's the key yeah i think it's
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yeah you have a question of it yeah
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i see we spoke uh i mean what they say about the inclusion uh of that
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the main and me mine's the experimental planning hand
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how this has to be taken into account
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my question to d.'s harmon is what do you think about the latest new we heard
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about cats any injects it any mines
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and the lack of response up to strong in treating depression one uh
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research uh was and mine sorry what is actually the woman versus being and in other words
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uh why and uh uh experiment was not buy it will use scientist the
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drop it not work and the other way around i try to listen to a comment and the
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other thing i'd like to ask you is what are you taking as an action as empowerment
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to bring this topic to the penny it to the to the attention of the
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policymakers of regulators of journals of funding agency for doing research so
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we do as a crowd here sixteen to with respect
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accountable outcome from this distinguished honours the sitting here thank you
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but it would be so i'll take the first part 'cause the second part i think we can now
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uh input back um one thing i can say is it's not simple right
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it's not just a matter of including both sexes analysing my sex and
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and and go off figure everything out and we can all be out of a job in ten years um
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i mean i'm sure we all know that and um uh the it
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environment matters right it's not just um i sex i've been subject that you're
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looking at but environment matter so you're absolutely right there some really nice
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state i'm looking at adult easy response and can i mean responses and
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showing that the sex that the experimenter matter in terms of the
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the um responses from animals and i think it's naive to think that
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um that at the way we handle animals that we we house animals
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um but doesn't influence their behaviour was part is of course it does it influences our
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own responses like depending on what position we see if if it's a position that
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um nice to vassar sympathetic person one that's not nice but somewhat sympathetic about
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um our care is all that matters or environment enter um uh will really impact
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what we see and it's just something that we need to um in terms of uh
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uh_huh having better reproduce ability something that we need to um work around
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and maybe one thing that i'll say before i start talking
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rambling is i met its sections method sections really matter and for
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a lot of 'em journals i don't know about lance that
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they're relegated to the and or you know you have five hundred words
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or something for them and that it's supplementary and actually really matters
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the size of the room whatever whatever task you're using um the age of the
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subjects are all these things actually will matter in terms of er spar
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yeah wanna um second that and point out some work by jeff mogul and he
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in which she showed that um the sex of the researcher made a difference to the rodents tolerance to pain
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and the mechanism he thinks is actually all faction that they're feral is there a sense that are given
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off by males that are not given up by females and that that raises anxiety in the males
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um and and that that actually the the the rising anxiety in the mill
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runs actually decreases the pain threshold i mean increases the pain threshold
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because when you're ensures you you put you put a blotter on on
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response to pain so would be getting to work these things out
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and i i i wanna second what um but lisa saying
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about the environment uh not just for humans i
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actually think animals that gender even though they might not identify as a male or female we don't know
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but we can redefine the environment as actually a gender environment and there
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are i i really think we need to think about how
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what what might be the most relevant gender characteristic of the
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of the biological phenomena that we want to study and
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potentially think about how to model that britain's systems
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uh because i think that's gonna make a big difference um ultimately to
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to what we what we see in the uh even preclinical trials
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it may make a comment just as a follow up what is being said so
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far and also to answer your question i think well heating on the point
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of the college of the science that we have so the reproduce ability point
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so why should we care for sex and gender in our experiments
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okay we want to support women when it's needed and all that but for me as a scientist is really because
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have been analysing all your data set considering all the possible variables
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that's the best possible way to do science this is excellence in science so if we want to
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do a good job in if we want people to be able to reproduce our experiments
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if we want to be able to use the data dan for treatment maybe later
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on we must do this type of analysis and not just for women
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but also for come up with better treatment and better hypotheses for both men and women
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so i think the whole discussion between the panel is how to make this topic seem to be interesting to the whole community
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is really to stress that this is something that is gonna improve the overall output of our our work
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uh in the should be really our goal i find and the whole point is whether we should
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impose its from the top so whether reagan and like funding agencies and all that should just
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for say or what i would much rather prefer was a movement from
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the bottom from the scientists realising that this is a much better
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to to to do and reporting science and so we should just have a movement from the bottom i think i would actually
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yeah
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ah who nineteen ninety three very playstation are coming to my age started with this is nineteen
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ninety three we're here twenty five years later going walking circles so something has gone wrong
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and we have we something we're doing what we're doing enough what i uh you know the one
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take a message for me from that study is is really the alarming amount of negative studies
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that or the score that's negative because of one one uh uh research of uh you know that just one aspect
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of research or whether if it's a male conducted that study and then it turned out to be negative
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i think that not but things exclusively to gender maybe thing i think that's a general usually all aspects of time so
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you mean you mean the ripple suitable shouldn't be you summarise some issue here in this context
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that's not that's what you know if you look at if you look at that study
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um and you discard it is a negative because a male or a
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female wasn't ministering this government and it didn't have those bonds
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we also need to think about reproduce re not and not necessarily in terms of diversifying the systems that you check
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from from male animals do two female animals but it's also such as
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i would be
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my name is the good news is good news but i would like to say one word about translation
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we all see the the exactly is calling this that is the the docks which are the drug
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which is mostly use it to the only drug features
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in effect the the not only disease anymore
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every person work in the field grimaced everything maybe talk with it
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or will go to bush say going back to the
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knows that we must include female and maybe why
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because the men w. small the enzyme is much
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different this is were discovered in the eighties
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so it is a big mistake if you really bored war concord
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image that is not to include both would make a mistake
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this is an animal is very clear everybody knows from the eighty
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yeah we have been looking into there is about ten start this
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where they're us so um they are with regard to gender
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sex differences in the treatment of alzheimer disease
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women and men the answer is yes
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he may it may seem more effects cease to be grating man
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now the they're a certain group so women in which different
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these great that it is we don't know reasonable
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do we know anything about the difference in metabolism of this drug
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in the one i'm intersected are probably me now because there are
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more than a thousand papers all columnist there is a maybe toward
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their company have been working for twenty five years so
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their company shouldn't all if there is a difference in metabolism but they never published
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so we don't know we could we don't have this also in human
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only in her name also this is the one of the people to translate
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when you don't have that they got in the in human because their company just important if you would like it
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just fell upon um there's there's one one study very old one from the eighties um by marty far low
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showing that called industries inhibitors are much more effective in women
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who on hormone replacement then women who are not
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and that's the one study i can think of and then i just want to echo what you
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say about the preclinical models it's uh i think most of the preclinical models for alzheimer's disease
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are actually using mail rodents and most of that people in
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the clinical trials are also overseas if or when and
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i don't think it does that and i think that's why don't you do that
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hi
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how many times i think it's great
Conference Program
Welcome Words
Maria Teresa Ferretti, President, Women's Brain Project
Dec. 12, 2017 · 8:48 a.m.
Welcome adress
Françoise Grossetête, member of the European Parliament
Dec. 12, 2017 · 8:55 a.m.
Presentation of the day
Sylvia Day, Forum host and WBP ambassador
Dec. 12, 2017 · 9:01 a.m.
Introduction of Elena Becker-Barroso
Elena Becker-Barroso, Editor-in-Chief of The Lancet Neurology
Dec. 12, 2017 · 9:21 a.m.
230 views
Introduction of Gillian Einstein
Gillian Einstein, University of Toronto, Canada
Dec. 12, 2017 · 9:28 a.m.
Introduction of Else Charlotte Sandset
Else Charlotte Sandset, Oslo University Hospital, Norway
Dec. 12, 2017 · 9:39 a.m.
Introduction of Carol Brayne
Carol Brayne, University of Cambridge, UK
Dec. 12, 2017 · 9:44 a.m.
Introduction of Maria Teresa Ferretti
Maria Teresa Ferretti, President, Women's Brain Project
Dec. 12, 2017 · 9:52 a.m.
158 views
Introduction of Liisa Galea
Liisa Galea, University of British Columbia, Canada
Dec. 12, 2017 · 9:56 a.m.
Introduction of Lawrence Rajendran
Lawrence Rajendran
Dec. 12, 2017 · 10:03 a.m.
244 views
Introduction of Thorsten Buch
Thorsten Buch, Director, Institute of Laboratory Animal Science (LTK), University of Zurich, Switzerland
Dec. 12, 2017 · 10:08 a.m.
Introduction of Meryl Comer
Meryl Comer , President & CEO, Geoffrey Beene Foundation Alzheimer's Initiative
Dec. 12, 2017 · 10:59 a.m.
Introduction of Mary Mittelman
Mary Mittelman, New York University School of Medicine, US
Dec. 12, 2017 · 11:05 a.m.
Introduction of Angela Abela
Angela Abela , University of Malta, Malta
Dec. 12, 2017 · 11:13 a.m.
Introduction of Tania Dussey-Cavassini
Tania Dussey-Cavassini, Former Swiss Ambassador for Global Health, Switzerland
Dec. 12, 2017 · 11:20 a.m.
480 views
Introduction of Rajendra Dhamane
Rajendra Dhamane
Dec. 12, 2017 · 11:29 a.m.
Introduction of Sofia Petersson
Dec. 12, 2017 · 1:23 p.m.
Introduction of Raj Long
Raj Long , Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Vice-Chair, World Dementia Council
Dec. 12, 2017 · 1:30 p.m.
200 views
Introduction of Antonella Santuccione Chadha
Antonella Santuccione Chadha , Swissmedic, Swiss Regulatory Agency, Switzerland
Dec. 12, 2017 · 1:32 p.m.
371 views
Introduction of Marsha B. Henderson
Marsha B. Henderson, Food and Drugs Administration, Office for Women's Health, US
Dec. 12, 2017 · 1:36 p.m.
Introduction of Maeve Cusack
Maeve Cusack, European Institute for Women's Health
Dec. 12, 2017 · 1:43 p.m.
Introduction of Hadine Joffe
Hadine Joffe, Harvard Medical School, US
Dec. 12, 2017 · 1:47 p.m.
Introduction of Maria Houtchens
Maria Houtchens, Harvard Medical School, US
Dec. 12, 2017 · 1:55 p.m.
Introduction of Valerie Bruemmer
Valerie Bruemmer, Senior Medical Advisor, Eli Lilly
Dec. 12, 2017 · 2:03 p.m.
Introduction of Malou Cristobal
Malou Cristobal, Polytrauma/ TBI / Vestibular Rehabilitation Program, New York Harbour
Dec. 12, 2017 · 2:08 p.m.
Panel Discussion: Sex and gender in clinical trials for brain and mental diseases – Reconsidering the way we test drugs
Dec. 12, 2017 · 2:12 p.m.
112 views
Wrap up of Panel Discussion 3
Raj Long , Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Vice-Chair, World Dementia Council
Dec. 12, 2017 · 3:23 p.m.
Presentation of Sofia, Robot
Sofia, Robot
Dec. 12, 2017 · 3:28 p.m.
Introduction of Nicoletta Iacobacci
Nicoletta Iacobacci , Singularity University Geneva
Dec. 12, 2017 · 3:32 p.m.
Introduction of Fabrizio Renzi
Fabrizio Renzi, Innovation and Technologies Director, IBM, Rome
Dec. 12, 2017 · 3:36 p.m.
Introduction of Joanna J. Bryson
Joanna J. Bryson , University of Bath, UK
Dec. 12, 2017 · 3:48 p.m.
Introduction of Myshkin Ingawale
Myshkin Ingawale, Facebook
Dec. 12, 2017 · 3:58 p.m.
Introduction of Kathryn Goetzke
Kathryn Goetzke, President, Chief Mood Officer & Founder, The Mood Factory, and Founder, iFred
Dec. 12, 2017 · 4:07 p.m.
Introduction of Nikolaos Mavridis
Nikolaos Mavridis , Interactive Robots and Media Labs, MIT, US
Dec. 12, 2017 · 4:13 p.m.
Panel discussion: Digital biomarkers and new technologies – New tools to support women's brain health
Dec. 12, 2017 · 4:26 p.m.
Closing remarks
Mara Hank Moret
Dec. 12, 2017 · 5:12 p.m.
605 views
