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Only a guy at a table background as an
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etiquette guide engineer from a
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different I'm also the founder of BTS
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about until from one of the leading
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potential phones Innes return and and
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I'm in that industry self retard button
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coughed. And the IBTSN yeah it works.
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This is our building we are ten to six
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P fairly ingenious and the lawyers and
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the button down a cent we are
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supporting company is and a lot of
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stuff that in the innovation process so
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I'll make an if you know your ego face
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our mission in if you want this to help
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companies to put echoing operation and
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protect innovation from the
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competition. So to do this we find
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every yeah more than three hundred the
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patent application worldwide in more on
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the sixty five account yes. So we don't
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have a platonic clients directly
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companies directly into turn on in most
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your pen countries and we have a
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network of agents of correspondence in
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is yeah in the north America and in
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most important in Detroit countries. So
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we had companies two different a
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product different markets against
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competition. But for start ups the
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situation is slightly different more
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startups I don't have any significant
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markets they don't have any product
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most doctors haven't even started to
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sell to anything. So why should they
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care about IP why should they have any
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discussion with the patent on a they
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don't have anything to protect at the
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moment so is it really a priority so do
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you have any ideas why a for stock that
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it's it is important to care about any
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any suggestions oh yeah okay so I was
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you mean as an insurance against button
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towards. But to do it is you can just
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publish or invention and if you don't
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one someone else two buttons or
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invention and you can just sell your
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product and a sword as it's sold or the
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horse one as you have made a
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publication and no one else can get
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about and for this invention which is
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stored in some situation it's a better
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weather about and as well as on just a
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publication and it can be used as a
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traitor means in of course I something
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agreement for example so yes it is used
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as across a licensing tool or any other
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idea as anyone have monkey already
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filed a patent application and off some
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experiments okay I think quite a lot of
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people about it. And what are you is on
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for finding patent application domain
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reasons yeah okay so so okay so so sh
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it's It's she someone has else. okay so
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it's a way of assessing your invention
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yeah okay yeah yeah okay and fun for
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you Okay no oh well someone else oh I
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we oh some of that actually the whole
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thing yes maybe a little difficult
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though visually but oh waiting list
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maybe you know oh okay and what is the
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best oh maybe it's a probably okay well
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I think the buttons should yeah yes but
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probably yeah okay so convincing
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investors yes that's quite a common
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areas on for startups yeah and we had
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another time fast and I think with some
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experience now oh yeah I think no but
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yeah so so for many reasons for stuff
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that I think it's in the best off
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exactly as you said really trying to
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convince invest all that you have a
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unique selling proposition and and you
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want to shorten the war or I made some
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something and I want I think it's
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pretty unique so you don't need to
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start someone tells us this is my idea
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not our society so that could be way
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convincing for investors. It's also I
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often used to demonstrate IP own
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actually I wait often the situation the
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IPO ownership it's very complicated at
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the beginning of a start up some part
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of the idea come from the university
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some part come from different people
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feel and so and ideas but before the
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creation of the startup so patent
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finding the patent application could be
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a way to clarify the situation on to
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explain exactly and to have an
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agreement between all the parties one
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define who owns which inventions it is
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also used as a marketing tool as we
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will see it's also way of saying to the
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war or did made an invention I think
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it's way new or unique. So it could be
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important. And it's yours for licensing
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that because many stock that they don't
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have a new easy access to award market.
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So they want to legalise sends off of
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the idea to other companies which are
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in a better position to sell the idea
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to different for different application
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or in different countries. So we've
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seen more details also reasons for
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invest also assist the statement I that
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you made a statement from an investor
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or in UK but I think it's quite come on
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many that I will tell you okay so team
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is the most imposed on people are the
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most important which is to obviously
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invest all that tries to people but to
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people can leave the company at any
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time. So even if you put your money as
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an investor into a start up you don't
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know what will happen it could be that
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the founders of thirty people will even
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work for the competition and and you
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will what we would well to maybe we
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don't have any IP could be the to
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invest some money in the development of
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a technology. And such a competitor we
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use this technology. So for investor
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it's used as a protection not only
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again the competition. But also to keep
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the founder to be sure that it by not
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only the key people but also the ID and
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the technology this is a statistics
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cement okay send create we also go into
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town and the and number one hundred
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sixty four space to start up some and
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other start ups in a survey of enhanced
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from any money they get from investment
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and is a far the patent application and
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we're gonna very see a significant
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difference between the startups I with
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a patent application and all without
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about patent application going to on on
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the non patenting startup received an
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average fondly of us went about seventy
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four thousand his fangs. And patenting
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startups received about two two point
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five more money from investors for this
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is really quite significant obviously
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doesn't give the on it might be that a
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file patent application because they
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are good stuff that's time because I
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could start to there have see money
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from investors. But still we can see
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jack to clubs. And one best off that
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this would start ups the start ups
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which are able to convince investors on
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most of them will have buttons and the
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other one that less likely what part a
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large sum of money. So I think this is
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really really so main trade off for
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many start ups even if buttons are not
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on top of the pile quickly it becomes
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so really very high in the priority
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list quite soon because investor we
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interested I I think this is quite
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important to have this in mind when you
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find a patent application for voiced
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stuff that you are no way different
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situations on filing a patent
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application for more established a
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company an established company I don't
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know what's may go into town and for
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example or manufacture of machine tools
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you will be way often way happy to have
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set of claims which is way hard to
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understand because you want to find a
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patent application and it doesn't want
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any opposition and so many companies
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are we happy if no one can easily
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understand the claims. So we just file
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it it will be twenty eight and they
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don't want to make a lot of those about
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phone to spot and for starts of start
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up the situation is quite different for
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stuff that you want to advertise the
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fact that you have a a patent
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application so way important assets why
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important fundamental invest all so we
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try to off patent application for start
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up so in a different style we try to
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avoid too much of a patent language if
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it's not needed and we try to have good
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fit you are for example away easy to be
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a part in order for you guys to be able
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to pitch and your your patent
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application and explain to investors
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okay we have to invent all of this
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technology and we sing it belongs to us
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well so convinced that we have a file a
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patent application and this is our
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claim on it's quite easy to understand
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what we have protected and what we
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don't to us. So the Reading the word
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process of finding a petition is quite
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a different when you want to advertise
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in the fact that you were you were
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invented something or if you just want
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something purely defensive as a to week
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cheap in a bind up somewhere on only
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you is if you have any problems so
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gonna reasons which is quite common is
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to clarify. So I IP ownership many
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invention many start ups are created
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for example in the university or the
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technical university. And the situation
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is often quite complex part of the
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research has been made within the
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university but by your professional by
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stewed and by PHD and after a few yeah
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so someone discovered all but is with
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actual you a good idea. And then we
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want to create a stock that but the
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warranty so toward idea behind the
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start that was made if you a different
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bass one by the founder but of wonder
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at that time they were not pump ideas.
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So the need an agreement between the
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founder as private yes son on the
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startup part of it might belong to the
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university. And it might be that some
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people will participate in it to the
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invention they one turns as talk to
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maybe some students find work as well.
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So what I often the situation is a
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difficult much more difficult than in
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traditional companies and the fact that
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you file a patent application and it's
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a way of putting everything on paper we
00:12:43
need to discuss yeah between also speed
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you we need to discuss with university
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for example to discuss with you or the
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park now to sign an agreement and it
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will clarify the situation really
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approve an evidence that you can use
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later on okay this is really belong to
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us and we have maybe paid something to
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uni university or we got the license on
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the university between all specifically
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our invention and use is also required
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by many investors and investors I don't
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want to invest into a company mister IP
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ownership situation is not clear it's
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not something that you can easily it's
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later on when the company's more
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successful at that time you should try
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to to fix the problem. It will be much
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more difficult also come on for start
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ups to have the people working for the
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start up one notch at comply you feel
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and sell for example of people still at
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a university. So do we need an
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agreement with also speak on company
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into switch own on only owns invention
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made by companies but not by it's not
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people. And the fact that you will go
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to a button attorney at this stage you
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will try to help you organise a
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situation to clarify the situation. And
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everybody clean situation after the
00:14:03
filing of a patent application a sound
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real quite common for startups it's
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just the market filing the patent
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application that we will see it's quite
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expensive process it's a time consuming
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it requires a lot of energy for for a
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small company. But the fact that you
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find a patent applications always
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talking statement to the outside world.
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When you say to the outside world or we
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have invented something we have made a
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new development and we so convinced
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that it's new and you when you can
00:14:41
never met before that we spend some
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money and that we filed decided to file
00:14:46
a patent application and this is the
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waste on this page to see where
00:14:50
important. Again for you invest all but
00:14:53
not only for the next hour upon before
00:14:55
your clients for the order echo system
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of the company everyone night
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innovative companies everyone wants to
00:15:03
work for with an innovative the company
00:15:05
no one wants to work for for follower
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for me to combine the two it's quite a
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strong statement you can go to the
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press it's easier to attract attention
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of newspaper for example diffuse and
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then then we met then intervention and
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we find a patent applications more
00:15:21
convincing some just explaining we have
00:15:23
the new product. It's important for
00:15:26
employees yourselves well bindings
00:15:28
message that you have something unique
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such as invent of of something. And
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it's important for the word by one man
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and it's something you should not
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neglect at the beginning of the company
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you need some credibility you need to
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convince a lot of people that you have
00:15:43
made some something when you weigh
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unique and finding a patent application
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is a way of pointing his message in a
00:15:50
more convincing way and then finally
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it's a force come one reason for you
00:16:00
combine is to find a patent application
00:16:02
is like sending as I said many start
00:16:06
ups at Ron fully explored invention and
00:16:09
maybe they made a new software or a new
00:16:11
solution an office and some new
00:16:13
technology. And say you have a new
00:16:16
business case for this technology but
00:16:18
it could be is that the same technology
00:16:20
could be used for completely different
00:16:22
application. Maybe you Meta software
00:16:25
which is way go to animal by equipment
00:16:28
in a mobile phone is marked for one on
00:16:30
you market your ward programming is all
00:16:33
about the mobile equipment but it could
00:16:35
be that the way same solution would be
00:16:37
you with the in the desktop PC or in
00:16:39
any type of equipment but you don't
00:16:42
have any access to this market you're
00:16:43
not interested. So you might we decide
00:16:46
to set a lies and so forth also that
00:16:48
application and also uses a different
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companies or it could be central market
00:16:54
is a lot of local market the domestic
00:16:56
market maybe you want to send your
00:16:58
invention industry turn on on your
00:17:00
heart and you might have some access to
00:17:03
united states but is yeah maybe more
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difficult only some conference of
00:17:08
energy are but not other countries. So
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I think the patent applications a way
00:17:12
of saying international ninety I here I
00:17:16
this invention and but I can't export
00:17:18
it I don't know in jump on so I want to
00:17:20
centralise hands for the use of this
00:17:22
application and to a japanese company
00:17:25
and I wear happy to collect some white
00:17:27
is some fees from this licensing the
00:17:30
company and this is licensing coolers
00:17:37
will be you in the development of a
00:17:39
more complex product you take your car
00:17:42
for example to develop would car you
00:17:45
need some abuse we good knowledge of
00:17:47
mechanics which is not sufficient you
00:17:50
will need a lot of invention of our
00:17:53
chemistry a lot of software hardware
00:17:56
electronics and different things. So a
00:17:59
lot of complicated technologies it it's
00:18:03
not possible for single company to be
00:18:06
number one you know all those fears so
00:18:08
even if you have the best mechanical
00:18:10
engineer but no good electronic
00:18:14
engineers or you won't sell your cross.
00:18:17
So it's the end of the of the day to be
00:18:21
successful we need to be able to
00:18:24
integrate so values technologies. And
00:18:27
nowadays is most successful companies
00:18:29
for not the companies which are number
00:18:31
one in all different fields and number
00:18:34
one chemistry number one mechanics
00:18:37
number one in electronics. But company
00:18:40
which are the most efficient and in
00:18:42
licensing technology from different
00:18:44
parts now so small companies larger
00:18:46
companies or buying the products buying
00:18:49
the startup themself in order to
00:18:51
develop a complex product or with more
00:18:54
features and in decorated the most
00:18:57
efficient the possible ways this
00:18:59
technology to bring yeah the the best
00:19:02
car to the market or the best product
00:19:04
to the market. So many technologies
00:19:07
many patent applications are not
00:19:10
concerning the one day a single product
00:19:12
that it's on your part of more much
00:19:14
more complex product. And in order to
00:19:17
sell just technology you will need to
00:19:19
to all this technology and to find a
00:19:21
patent application. So it's away
00:19:24
important in the B to be start that in
00:19:28
be to be companies so if you don't sell
00:19:30
a product that if you want to say the
00:19:32
technologies that will be made. And
00:19:34
used by by by your clients. So if you
00:19:41
have an inventory of met an invention
00:19:44
or new development and you said is a
00:19:46
new piece of software what are your
00:19:48
options. So guns define mainly for
00:19:53
possible maybe case can decide to do
00:19:56
nothing some more stuck come one way of
00:19:59
dealing with invention nice from
00:20:01
statistics said that in your only about
00:20:04
how of of the invention of button to do
00:20:06
what did or and that in some way. So it
00:20:10
still works. We can decide to keep a
00:20:13
secrecy as you explain because
00:20:15
invention and I don't know if it's a
00:20:18
mess sort of manufacture we want
00:20:20
competition is no access to the for or
00:20:23
eating or lab to understand how your
00:20:25
product is men or maybe the new feature
00:20:28
is where you don't it into the product
00:20:31
to pieces of other lines of code within
00:20:33
the already complex software or it's a
00:20:36
some Francis or in the cheap and it's
00:20:38
very difficult to do some serious
00:20:40
engineering for the competition. So
00:20:43
secrecy could be efficient or just your
00:20:48
project you can this decide to to do a
00:20:50
publication make a scientific
00:20:52
publication or just sell your product
00:20:55
into the market or you can decide to go
00:20:57
for protection. And we will spend some
00:21:00
time messing what are the advantages on
00:21:03
the at these advantages of or sources
00:21:06
strategies but we do not think so the
00:21:11
that that's obviously that it you don't
00:21:14
need to do something thinking know
00:21:16
course to not time so it's away easy
00:21:18
and the do some of that is is that if
00:21:21
you don't do something get first you
00:21:23
wish is always is that someone will and
00:21:26
just copy your invention on non makes a
00:21:28
simpler to sell the same products or
00:21:31
your marketing will be about yours
00:21:33
truly we need to to hide to parse the
00:21:36
size of your market will be reduced. So
00:21:40
competition based on the price for
00:21:41
distribution. But not on something you
00:21:44
would need that you own and if you do
00:21:48
not nothing if you don't publish if you
00:21:51
don't advertise your product another
00:21:54
race is that a competitor according to
00:21:57
make the same intervention possibly
00:21:59
find a patent application for this
00:22:01
invention I look you at the end of the
00:22:02
day. That's quite a risk and it might
00:22:07
be then it was just wait and of venture
00:22:10
and if you don't sell the product if
00:22:12
you don't explain to the Warner which
00:22:13
works. You might be prevented even if
00:22:16
you can prove a point so maybe then
00:22:18
that you made invention internally
00:22:20
within your startup within your company
00:22:22
someone else later on find the patent
00:22:24
application you might be broken
00:22:26
preventing from selling his invention
00:22:28
to the market another option is
00:22:34
confidentiality. So user secrecy. And
00:22:38
it does work. He's sees a coca cola
00:22:40
laceration and so so the recipe or for
00:22:43
coca cola it's cheating in some off the
00:22:46
confidence on a some buttons on the
00:22:49
recipe but some aspect of some labels
00:22:52
after confident charlotte's where
00:22:53
important for the marketing of coca
00:22:55
cola obviously it allows them to to the
00:22:59
to the public we have something unique
00:23:01
and our our drink is way different from
00:23:04
all other ones because you have
00:23:06
something a secret within to coca cola
00:23:09
I'm not sure I'm not the chemist I'm
00:23:11
not sure if this is a really completely
00:23:13
different from for the variables using
00:23:19
Pepsi for example but but it is
00:23:21
confidential and and it is difficult
00:23:23
for for the competition to know exactly
00:23:26
what what you had in coca cola. It's
00:23:29
way come on for software because of for
00:23:32
software included just combine your
00:23:34
code and it the way difficult or
00:23:36
impossible for competition for
00:23:38
competitors to know exactly what you're
00:23:40
protected or for hardware for chips.
00:23:43
It's possible to do some previous
00:23:45
engineering for hardware it is
00:23:47
expensive so the body is so high that
00:23:50
it's not wait come on people with open
00:23:53
your you cheap and make a copy also
00:23:57
it's becoming easier and cheaper one
00:23:59
more come on but it's already quite a
00:24:02
body. So technology might be protected
00:24:09
by secret just because they are not
00:24:10
accessible and you have also in
00:24:14
Switzerland on the and in most
00:24:16
countries unfair competition low would
00:24:18
give you an additional protection
00:24:21
against unfair you was for example if
00:24:25
an employee leaves your company. And
00:24:27
take invention and on make can you use
00:24:30
which is not what the highest maybe you
00:24:32
can do something that insist on plays
00:24:35
or against apart no against so party
00:24:39
helping you to develop it'd make
00:24:41
something of the invention of the
00:24:42
confidential information and that a
00:24:46
pricey for another propose maybe you
00:24:48
can show them but it's not the
00:24:51
protection on if someone and this will
00:24:54
develop the same solution independently
00:24:57
or we do some reverse engineering and
00:25:00
sits on on than many countries reverse
00:25:01
engineering is absolutely legal so you
00:25:05
can take any product done open it and
00:25:08
analyse it and make a one to one copy
00:25:11
into channel and it's perfectly legal
00:25:13
and Germany in some other countries if
00:25:16
it's the one to one copy maybe we have
00:25:19
some protection but it's way needed.
00:25:22
And in many important markets like
00:25:24
guess it's an on site is you S one to
00:25:26
one copy. It's perfectly possible as
00:25:29
soon as a product is on the market the
00:25:32
secrecy this works. But only if we it's
00:25:38
possible to keep the invention supplied
00:25:40
not for an invention which becomes
00:25:42
badly as soon as it's on the market no
00:25:47
doubt to keep this a question you can
00:25:49
have an undisclosed argument for
00:25:54
example if you need to to discuss
00:25:56
reinvention with Spock natural that you
00:25:59
want to begin to do do I really want to
00:26:02
fight a patent application and I first
00:26:04
need to discuss with some clients Kate
00:26:07
ryan's I first need to discuss with
00:26:09
some developer so it's already a breach
00:26:12
of confidentiality. So it to we avoid
00:26:15
is what you can do is to prepare
00:26:17
nondisclosure agreement becoming more
00:26:19
and more common more more common part
00:26:22
is well so the disk nondisclosure
00:26:24
agreement and there are accepted buys
00:26:28
button to finish particular you open
00:26:31
patent television your C are really
00:26:34
giving a lot of weight the
00:26:35
nondisclosure agreement if there is any
00:26:37
any scene publish and and then the it
00:26:40
won't be considered the playoff
00:26:42
publication. And button can be twenty
00:26:46
that even if that intention was this
00:26:48
the discussed previously and and the
00:26:50
and the question. So yeah if you would
00:27:01
that an invention. And you discuss
00:27:04
about this invention with someone and
00:27:06
this even within the school or two
00:27:08
apart now to someone and you don't have
00:27:10
any indian on and no implicit
00:27:14
confidentiality whatever this is
00:27:16
disclose will will be nobody destroying
00:27:18
which means that you can find a patent
00:27:20
application for like the voicing that
00:27:22
you discussed but if you have an in the
00:27:25
it would be protected so it's
00:27:26
completely fail to discuss about two
00:27:29
invention with someone and and then
00:27:31
India yeah oh yeah yeah of course it's
00:27:47
only put text you give you the petition
00:27:51
the possibility to file a patent
00:27:53
application later but it's not a
00:27:56
protection. So if you want to file if
00:28:00
you're not sure yet met an invention of
00:28:02
and you are not sure if you want to
00:28:04
find a patent application or not you
00:28:05
first need to discuss with some people
00:28:07
are to you might be notre you can
00:28:12
discuss because if you discuss with
00:28:14
someone it sort of idea nobody
00:28:16
destroying and you we want be in a
00:28:18
position to find a patent application
00:28:20
letter on what to overcome just cop
00:28:22
what you can do is to find a but to to
00:28:24
to some women in design which will give
00:28:27
you the possibility to discuss in a
00:28:29
limited way with some far enough before
00:28:31
taking decision. But you white if
00:28:34
someone else in the meantime file a
00:28:37
patent application you wanna yeah oh
00:28:49
yeah yeah very very difficult to to
00:29:00
have a a good and the and yeah it's a
00:29:03
good traditions are accepted but it's
00:29:05
way if you could get to issues from one
00:29:08
for each of NDA it's often way
00:29:11
disappointing because exactly as you
00:29:13
say you don't you can put the war
00:29:15
tradition in the ND otherwise you know
00:29:18
the people we just within D and say OTC
00:29:20
were interesting but I don't want to
00:29:22
sign it sent you the data got access to
00:29:25
the easy solution oh you are just way
00:29:29
genetic on this old information and I
00:29:31
share doing this meeting or between
00:29:34
just data insisted a confidence on
00:29:37
which is fine. But after that if
00:29:40
someone something happens you will
00:29:42
never know exactly what with that and
00:29:45
so it's very difficult to to be to get
00:29:50
the damages for breach of and the even
00:29:53
if you can bring a bead and so that's
00:29:55
that's a tradition run out or do all
00:30:00
wasn't meant was made in breach of the
00:30:02
in the you still need to to bring
00:30:04
evidence of the amount of damages that
00:30:07
you had and decision more situation
00:30:09
almost impossible twenty are good but
00:30:12
only with it was to park yeah will have
00:30:15
a and EA with someone in in a movie you
00:30:18
have some twist don't close the people
00:30:21
don't speak about invention before you
00:30:23
file a patent application if you yeah
00:30:43
yeah oh it okay of course yes of course
00:31:03
you could have an NDAOT could be even
00:31:06
more specific courses information is
00:31:08
confidential and but you could be more
00:31:10
specific than just speaking about
00:31:12
confidentiality you could say it's
00:31:14
confident shot and so off so only made
00:31:18
for this specific product country
00:31:20
specific proportions were not to be
00:31:22
under any circumstances BB disorders
00:31:26
someone else even if you decide you
00:31:29
said of to public the inspirational to
00:31:33
sell the product because India is only
00:31:36
valid. And TVC invention is confidence
00:31:40
and if you sign an endear we this guy
00:31:43
and the then you did you say UPCB and
00:31:47
that India doesn't work anymore because
00:31:49
there is no confidential information
00:31:50
anymore and what this for the reported
00:31:53
in the situation I would probably agree
00:31:55
in India for the first the period
00:31:58
before you said up. And the contractor
00:32:01
a sales or manufacturing contract for
00:32:04
the second period after you've said
00:32:06
because them. It's quite a gunshot and
00:32:09
even if it's not copy naturally on the
00:32:10
apollo to sell to it as a different
00:32:12
person I guess oh yeah all information
00:32:25
about things. Oh yeah it depends on it
00:32:35
really depends on the intent of the and
00:32:37
if it's just this done down the
00:32:40
sentence as you said you probably want
00:32:42
cover or the situation when you when
00:32:45
you send new emails to to any pass on
00:32:49
for you want work but it might get to
00:32:51
give you some benefits for the
00:32:54
situation and it's sounds strange but
00:32:56
it's not very clear even the fact that
00:32:59
you sent an email to non encrypted
00:33:01
email it was only decide to do
00:33:03
efficiently that if this is a petition
00:33:05
or not because when you said sent an
00:33:08
email it's like a postcard everyone in
00:33:10
middle kind of access is email and you
00:33:13
don't know you we make will go to those
00:33:15
were a lot of different service provide
00:33:18
a lot of different count is you don't
00:33:20
know the loads of those countries. So
00:33:22
some people that was the case with
00:33:24
Philip so essentially said oh but
00:33:27
traditions information is not confident
00:33:29
change because invention was it change
00:33:31
by emails and we don't know how many
00:33:33
people would have it access to this
00:33:35
invention was this is already something
00:33:37
which is not new and you open patent
00:33:40
office decided only two years ago that
00:33:42
just sending an email is is not a
00:33:45
breach of confidentiality because even
00:33:47
if it's technically possible for those
00:33:49
intimate your his to access the content
00:33:52
of the email list would not expect them
00:33:54
to do that. But if you send you an
00:33:57
email to thousands of people and just
00:34:01
put confidence serenity not is as you
00:34:03
said that on on the bottom probably
00:34:07
won't be considered confidential and
00:34:09
what it might help in some borderline
00:34:13
situation but don't question. I guess
00:34:16
not accepted by definition and just
00:34:18
results while another problem. And then
00:34:21
the it's a document that needs to be
00:34:23
some signed by the constituents walk
00:34:25
set some limitation of his future wife
00:34:27
of distributing invention should just
00:34:30
send me an information confidential
00:34:33
information researcher the disclaimer
00:34:35
all confidence right in what is I
00:34:37
haven't accepted not anything. Maybe I
00:34:40
had information about the in my
00:34:43
knowledge on I don't want to be bound
00:34:45
by just by some things that you put a
00:34:48
bottom of your lawn or if you email. So
00:34:52
in some it's useful. I don't want to
00:34:55
say that you should avoid this but
00:34:57
don't rely on this. So confidentiality
00:35:06
it. It's might be cheap because you
00:35:09
have or the cost of a button fighting.
00:35:11
I don't I don't it might be quite
00:35:15
expensive and sometimes it's more
00:35:17
expensive event on filing the patent
00:35:19
application because you can if you want
00:35:21
to enforce a secrecy we need a lot of
00:35:24
technical measure measure of you need a
00:35:26
contract which one place. You a price
00:35:29
might decide to leave the company your
00:35:31
company on work for the competition. So
00:35:34
you will need to put in the contract
00:35:35
agreement that that information is
00:35:38
confidential even doesn't either the
00:35:41
company. And so only valid if they did
00:35:44
some say got some compensation for that
00:35:47
can just add the line okay everything
00:35:49
this confidential everything you have
00:35:51
learned you work but yeah for the
00:35:52
company but everything you ever learn
00:35:55
is confident shall and you can choose
00:35:56
it at any time in your life that or so
00:35:59
you need to be more specific. And you
00:36:02
need to compensate the people. We need
00:36:05
some technical protection measures for
00:36:08
it might be quite expensive to keep a
00:36:10
secret for way don't period and for
00:36:14
some product is not possible at all for
00:36:16
some product as soon as the product is
00:36:19
on the market. It's not a financial
00:36:22
anymore but only walks for invention
00:36:24
and which can be kept confidential
00:36:27
within the company. And which are not
00:36:30
explain to the award as soon as the
00:36:33
products on the market there is almost
00:36:37
always over his cock reverse
00:36:38
engineering depending on the technology
00:36:41
depending on the solution it's
00:36:44
difficult other I just explained to
00:36:46
enforce or India or trade secret laws
00:36:50
you have from Lowell but I'll wait
00:36:51
difficult to enforce before the court
00:36:54
and ask for doing nothing says always a
00:36:59
risk that the sort boxes at the
00:37:01
competitor will have make the same
00:37:03
invention. And find a button
00:37:05
application for exactly you invention
00:37:07
and you might be blocked might say all
00:37:09
but I had this invention previously.
00:37:12
But if someone had find the button
00:37:13
before you even if you made invention
00:37:16
internally but you not communicate it
00:37:19
if you're not publish anything might be
00:37:20
built. So we often confidentiality is
00:37:25
only a time limited creations very good
00:37:27
it's a beginning to a good to use
00:37:29
confidentiality to be serious about
00:37:31
confidentiality for example doing the
00:37:34
development of your product but after
00:37:36
sometimes it's too expensive or too
00:37:38
difficult of to escape if you saying
00:37:45
that it's not possible to to maintain
00:37:49
secrecy for some reason on talk too
00:37:51
expensive or not but updated with new
00:37:54
technology you might decide to do
00:37:56
exactly the opposite to make a
00:37:58
publication for example a scientific
00:38:00
publication the paper or or use just
00:38:04
for your product when your product
00:38:05
warfare and you shall we do as many
00:38:07
people as you want you don't get any
00:38:11
protection for doing this not and you
00:38:15
just I mean you invention to the market
00:38:18
on and you and anyone else would make a
00:38:21
copy but at least you prevent as a
00:38:23
competition from filing a patent
00:38:25
applications which really giving
00:38:27
invention to the wall and say probably
00:38:29
one do what you want with is invention.
00:38:32
But don't please don't file a patent
00:38:33
application now it's probably so it's
00:38:35
not possible for anyone to find a
00:38:37
patent application. So it's a one way
00:38:41
decision as soon as you publish
00:38:43
something. It's a finished you can't
00:38:46
get the patent application for this
00:38:48
solution later on but that is trust
00:38:51
without no one else could get a patent
00:38:54
application that some platforms are the
00:39:00
way in which one is IP dot com where
00:39:03
you can make a publication what we call
00:39:05
the defensive publication and it just
00:39:08
web platform where we where you can
00:39:11
upload a document a word document or
00:39:13
PDF document to just platform will get
00:39:16
the timestamp on you want document with
00:39:19
see signature which is recognised by so
00:39:22
you hope and and you S the patent
00:39:24
office. And it's considered as a
00:39:27
publication but it's very then in the
00:39:30
that that is that no one will check and
00:39:33
you don't even need to put that title
00:39:35
that so it's a publication and it will
00:39:37
protect you against the button colours
00:39:39
for example or against a button and
00:39:41
stuff I later on by the competition.
00:39:44
But it's not very public you can use it
00:39:47
if you're in any trouble later on if
00:39:49
someone later on find a patent
00:39:51
application you can directly to
00:39:53
publication say by the way it was
00:39:55
probably even you want no one noticed
00:39:58
it was published and even maybe density
00:40:00
with Stein stand back. And it's very
00:40:03
easy. So IP dot com. It's a subpoena of
00:40:06
IBMIBM magician internally previous
00:40:09
yeah now see decided to create a
00:40:12
spinoff IP dot com you just pay by
00:40:14
credit card. And you can upload any any
00:40:17
document so it's not easily accessible
00:40:24
but it is accessible by the patent
00:40:26
office the you went button profusely
00:40:28
every direct access to the database. So
00:40:31
you know all you have can have some
00:40:32
class that if someone else decide to
00:40:35
file a patent application for the same
00:40:37
sort ish on the later on it's very
00:40:39
likely that exam you know at the patent
00:40:42
office with opportunities the document
00:40:44
because for them. And it's much easier
00:40:47
access it any questions about source
00:40:54
defensive publication or publication
00:40:56
yeah I I think you have to decide that
00:41:13
since you made an invention on you have
00:41:15
to decide between all those options you
00:41:18
have some invention which are were
00:41:19
important for you or you want to find a
00:41:22
patent application and because it's
00:41:24
within mention that will give you an
00:41:26
advantage on the market that hundred
00:41:29
some water invention you are less
00:41:30
convinced maybe it's not button table
00:41:32
it's not on I already knew on you and
00:41:35
that's you or it's less important than
00:41:37
other solution because are an active so
00:41:40
so you might decide oh I don't want to
00:41:42
find a patent application and it's too
00:41:44
expensive see it's too whiskey maybe I
00:41:46
won't get the button. But I want to be
00:41:49
sure that no one else we'll get the
00:41:51
button because it might still be an ID
00:41:55
for me in this case it's much better to
00:41:58
publish them to do nothing the war
00:42:01
situation is to have an ID on you way
00:42:04
you do know seeing but you start to
00:42:06
speak with one of it parent and the ID
00:42:09
is in the air on everyone to feel. We
00:42:13
get the idea and someone at some stage
00:42:15
we decide all but you see the way good
00:42:17
idea will file a patent application
00:42:19
with UID and you have no time maybe
00:42:21
then that you were the one at the
00:42:23
beginning so that the war situation. So
00:42:25
if you have make the decision. It's
00:42:29
interesting but not interesting enough
00:42:32
to buttons and it's much better to
00:42:33
publish them to to not just wait. And
00:42:37
that's exactly what I'd be an on on
00:42:39
morse alas companies are doing given
00:42:41
not companies it can't find a patent
00:42:43
application for each and every I D.s
00:42:45
they haven. And they have the original
00:42:48
ideas which a keep the confidential for
00:42:51
like a software so it's really a mix
00:42:54
and you have to decide for each
00:42:55
convention and what would be the best
00:42:57
what that you say is no possibility for
00:43:00
any company to decide our strategy will
00:43:03
be to find a button for everything that
00:43:05
we may not perceive and Boston that you
00:43:07
will be unable to find a patent
00:43:09
applications yeah you really need to
00:43:11
adopt oh any publication but it's on
00:43:23
the internet without the need it it
00:43:26
might be difficult later on in the four
00:43:28
yeah often five yeah it's something
00:43:30
happens at the women just don't have it
00:43:33
and so the same information was
00:43:35
available on the internet that that
00:43:36
they were just putting on the internet
00:43:39
in COE it's sufficient. But a button of
00:43:43
proof is on your side and it might be
00:43:45
extremely difficult. But why yeah the
00:43:48
website like IP dot com there really
00:43:51
give you a time stamp with a a
00:43:53
signature was to recognise or you can
00:43:56
probably fancy internet and bring a
00:43:58
copy of the of the pitch for not only
00:44:01
we charge maybe one hundred these funds
00:44:03
for that just to put a stamp with the
00:44:06
date on the paper from the document for
00:44:17
stops one is to go for IP protection if
00:44:20
a secrecy is not an option anymore it's
00:44:23
it's not possible if publishing yeah
00:44:26
you and not what you want to do because
00:44:29
you want to be protected we who you
00:44:32
want you can go for an IP protection a
00:44:35
lot of IP titles available different
00:44:39
depending on the kind of sorry can you
00:44:41
have if it's a technical solution and
00:44:44
if it's a marketing innovation and if
00:44:46
it's a design if it's a software so we
00:44:49
have the different titles. I have for
00:44:51
titles here but you're more a
00:44:53
possibility yeah so yeah oh yeah that's
00:45:04
another kind of protection it's not
00:45:06
really of what they can but it's always
00:45:08
elevation of a name yeah it could be
00:45:11
knows of things that you would consider
00:45:13
it's part of the trademark prodigy I
00:45:16
would say but you have a lot of titles
00:45:18
to white you have a away by you are
00:45:21
areas you have budget table spacey so
00:45:25
it was not only for important type of
00:45:30
protection so you are and a sub domain
00:45:32
names are were important but a
00:45:35
shouldn't be in my opinion be consider
00:45:37
within that way to market prodigy and
00:45:42
it's also possible to combine source
00:45:45
the different type of a protection and
00:45:46
a product like for example the upper to
00:45:48
watch of course they filed a few
00:45:52
buttons application and not so many
00:45:53
actually maybe I don't know and now but
00:45:57
checked a few months ago it was maybe
00:46:00
ten or twelve a patent application for
00:46:02
that but what so not such a huge a
00:46:04
number as a design is protected the
00:46:09
trademark is a protected on the all
00:46:12
what is on the litigation and about
00:46:13
trademark because the trademark apple
00:46:16
was already protected. And return on
00:46:19
for for what it is copyright for the
00:46:22
protection of the software I used
00:46:25
within the within the watch but also
00:46:27
for the war documentation. And some
00:46:30
trade secrets for example for ms sort
00:46:32
of manufacturing is the output watch
00:46:35
also protected us it or some part of
00:46:38
the course a protected secret. So if
00:46:41
you want to develop such a complex
00:46:43
supporters you will need to combine
00:46:45
with different titles in order to get
00:46:48
bits the possible protection for all
00:46:51
aspects was the feature was which makes
00:46:54
this product or successful or or less
00:46:56
successful. So if you start with a copy
00:47:01
wired which is quite important for a
00:47:04
software company copyright it's for any
00:47:11
artistic creation if you want to do if
00:47:13
you white an article in the newspaper
00:47:16
some piece of nudity yeah oh for a
00:47:18
while you are protected by copyright
00:47:21
you don't need to do anything you don't
00:47:24
need any registration as soon as you
00:47:26
have created something you are
00:47:28
protected positions that would change
00:47:30
of copyright no registration necessary
00:47:34
I saw an made something you are
00:47:36
protected it's automatic and also
00:47:40
applies to software for software is
00:47:43
considered as a kind of literally walk
00:47:46
is likable core like the text it's also
00:47:50
protect the protected by copyright as
00:47:54
soon as you have written something some
00:47:56
piece of software has some chords. And
00:47:59
even just a few lines if it's the
00:48:01
already on if it's new norwegian and
00:48:04
you are protected and the duration is
00:48:08
extremely long it's a seventy years
00:48:10
after that deaths of the last it'll
00:48:13
just for software that's been never
00:48:14
used to bit it's fifty years after that
00:48:17
this also the last apartment for fifty
00:48:21
years after the day's rating long feel
00:48:24
it means that we actually probably or
00:48:26
the software that we use in all our
00:48:28
treatments nowadays are still protected
00:48:30
by by some copyright saw some
00:48:38
requirements for it's automatic but it
00:48:41
doesn't apply to or artistic creation
00:48:46
or the software only applies the
00:48:49
software in the case of a software some
00:48:51
individual the cocktail. So if you just
00:48:54
tried to know about more ways simple
00:48:57
function on for I don't know I dinghy
00:49:01
it's and why for example or doing good
00:49:04
ways simple do it certainly not in the
00:49:07
video and and you won't be protected by
00:49:10
by copyright should do need some say
00:49:13
not only new one not only you would
00:49:14
need but some kind of individuality
00:49:17
which is sometimes difficult process.
00:49:21
So it's probably up to cables were
00:49:24
complicated piece of software if you
00:49:26
have a that's a morse on one on the
00:49:28
sidelines all one had lines of software
00:49:31
you are almost certain and that will be
00:49:33
individual enough unless trip just make
00:49:36
a copy of software if you have just a
00:49:38
few lines you need something maybe more
00:49:41
spatial but the difficulty for the
00:49:45
limitation of copyright is that it's
00:49:48
way limited to a particular expression
00:49:53
of an ID it's really that text which is
00:49:55
protected as think is white and it's
00:49:58
not the concept of this technique
00:50:00
transportation on behind that this
00:50:02
text. So it away effective way of
00:50:06
preventing that you with for example
00:50:09
from taking get your software on this
00:50:11
time starting your software on more
00:50:14
than just one equipment because use
00:50:16
will be just the one to one copy
00:50:18
clearly an infringement of your
00:50:21
copyright. But if someone takes or the
00:50:24
wood I D.s and all the fourteen set of
00:50:28
your software on make a copy by
00:50:31
reprogramming exactly the same with a
00:50:33
different language and come and the and
00:50:36
up with the product doing exactly the
00:50:38
same function on your wasting way but
00:50:40
with the different lines of code the
00:50:42
different text. It's not a copyright
00:50:45
infringement you might get some
00:50:48
protection some copyright protection
00:50:50
for you or user interface for I don't
00:50:55
know what the one venue with a text
00:50:57
Newman you might be protected from
00:51:00
coffee tried element might be protected
00:51:02
might be considered down the as an
00:51:04
artistic creation I don't know that
00:51:06
night alone for example to that harsh
00:51:09
on the apple computer. It's considered
00:51:12
to be over it you know so it is a
00:51:14
copyright protected but really what
00:51:20
your software is doing it is not
00:51:22
protected to develop four oh one K one
00:51:27
famous kid was the invention of the
00:51:30
approach it by the two so one push we
00:51:33
us forty years ago maybe and the was
00:51:36
the way successful product it was
00:51:38
really the beginning of the industry of
00:51:40
PC is the most successful software that
00:51:43
time. And after just one of two years
00:51:46
born on decided to develop a platform
00:51:50
which was the one the one copy of a
00:51:53
lotus one two three exactly the same
00:51:55
menu were exactly the same functions
00:51:57
that but people round with the more
00:51:59
more than a wage for more efficient
00:52:01
faster their waste you by what you said
00:52:04
that time look who's lost. So it's
00:52:08
really possible to creep up on an
00:52:11
existing software on making a same you
00:52:13
can probably people on the on the
00:52:14
ground so to more or once said the same
00:52:17
game as soon as you don't takes the
00:52:20
line of code and you don't take the
00:52:21
graphical onto don't things ability
00:52:23
condescending. So if you want to get
00:52:30
the protection for the technical
00:52:32
solution change behind this text behind
00:52:34
the expression of the of the text we
00:52:37
need to find a patent application so
00:52:40
patent application could be five for
00:52:42
any technical invention. It's only for
00:52:45
something that you can't it's not for
00:52:47
or something yeah extent you got some
00:52:49
artistic creation you need to do
00:52:52
something you need to find a patent
00:52:54
application you are not protected. And
00:52:56
clearly we have a filed a document with
00:53:01
a description on a set of claims to the
00:53:03
patent office. And the duration of
00:53:05
protection this maximum twenty years
00:53:08
after the filing date for quite a long
00:53:10
protection for software it seems way
00:53:12
longer in the file mind just it seems
00:53:15
way short but this see what you can do
00:53:21
for any technical no solution sauce
00:53:25
some criteria to to file a patent
00:53:28
application for software for screaming
00:53:32
criteria as effective the list of
00:53:34
things of invention which are not but
00:53:37
that the button tables for a list of
00:53:38
exclusion that we will see it needs to
00:53:41
be new and it's need to involve the
00:53:45
kind of inventive step sorts on the
00:53:47
available for invention and which are
00:53:50
not all views. So explanations for you
00:53:57
solution and needs an industrial the
00:54:00
applicability for example in inventions
00:54:03
that doesn't work like a bit that to my
00:54:06
more belated maybe maybe it's new maybe
00:54:09
you can invent the after two more be
00:54:12
there but it doesn't work. It's not up
00:54:14
to liberal and you can find a button
00:54:16
for that Charlie is a lot of people
00:54:20
applying I used to work at the button
00:54:23
proficient but only in a few years so
00:54:25
I'm gonna see if the almost every day
00:54:27
one of two buttons application for that
00:54:29
but to my movie and sometimes it was
00:54:33
one of my only the dealing with
00:54:36
technology sometimes will not way easy
00:54:38
to to to understand why doesn't work
00:54:41
for just to say you know it doesn't
00:54:43
work because it's contrived or the
00:54:45
principle of that and what you're not
00:54:46
me than the vent or just said yeah
00:54:49
exactly that's what I invented. So it
00:54:56
needs to work. But frankly is the
00:54:59
patent office it don't ask for much. So
00:55:02
is they have some doubts if they can
00:55:04
yeah I'm not entirely convinced. So we
00:55:07
probably still give you about and and
00:55:10
they would say okay it's the guy stupid
00:55:12
enough to spend some money for
00:55:13
something that doesn't work real happy
00:55:15
to to get the money and it one a menu
00:55:18
one to to fight about under it really
00:55:24
depends on the coverage if you want to
00:55:26
file a swiss patent application and a
00:55:28
national patent application in France
00:55:31
or Germany or you it could be quite
00:55:33
cheap maybe five thousand trees kinds
00:55:35
of six thousand six and if you want to
00:55:38
go for you or maybe twenty five thirty
00:55:40
silences hangs up if you want to go for
00:55:43
your you were this and one of tuition
00:55:46
count is maybe eighty one hundred
00:55:48
thousand trees plans for the cost will
00:55:50
depends on the technology but also way
00:55:54
match on the corporate it thousand
00:56:04
possibly button then and yeah yeah yeah
00:56:10
for not too complicated invention on
00:56:13
for yeah it is after the government in
00:56:17
most countries trip a new one fees
00:56:19
which I increasing source or just
00:56:22
button and we'll pay for the younger
00:56:25
ones because the idea is that if
00:56:27
someone teaches but and four way don't
00:56:29
party a successful or that so they
00:56:31
willing to pay for the younger the
00:56:34
buttons. So the minimal fees will start
00:56:37
in most countries by it that two one of
00:56:39
its three hundred a swiss francs and
00:56:42
will increase up to maybe once I was on
00:56:45
the two thousand the three times after
00:56:47
and yes software software has such is
00:56:55
not patentable in a you know but it's
00:56:59
only softer asset so it's clear but
00:57:01
clearly it down into your pen button
00:57:03
convention software facilities not
00:57:05
patentable. But and there was a lot of
00:57:08
evaluation on a lot of this agenda for
00:57:10
the boat from the board of obvious what
00:57:12
does it mean software I search on the
00:57:15
decision was that software asset it's
00:57:18
only is something where he much
00:57:20
earlier. It's only an algorithm so
00:57:22
something where you Montana you hide.
00:57:25
But the product like I don't know
00:57:27
hardly score USB key or CD rom with
00:57:30
software is not the software such as a
00:57:33
piece of equipment modified by the
00:57:37
programming from the software into PC
00:57:40
into a CD into a USVG so software as
00:57:44
such as you clearly only if you want to
00:57:47
go off to claims software comprising
00:57:50
the oh you what do you see some of the
00:57:53
someone module for doing is that we
00:57:54
tell you right right trying to button
00:57:56
something went and you cannot release
00:58:00
said software but you can just off to
00:58:03
claims like strip off. So ah for for
00:58:08
information and wage information
00:58:11
comprises accord for into seeing and
00:58:15
the people I of to do that and up and
00:58:18
that so softer a search even if it's
00:58:22
till I can see that does not patentable
00:58:24
it's very easy to overcome this
00:58:27
limitation in your work a lot of
00:58:29
confusion and if you really look at the
00:58:31
internet you will see a lot of articles
00:58:34
about this exclusion but it's not
00:58:36
really a way for the month anymore in
00:58:38
the in your work the US and UNGUSS
00:58:45
software is patentable as soon as it's
00:58:47
new and then not obvious a most yeah
00:58:51
use a limitation is a mathematical
00:58:53
misled and businessmen so it's because
00:58:56
miss out in your are extremely
00:58:59
difficult. So the purpose of your
00:59:01
software is just to do something some
00:59:04
business act it might be extremely
00:59:06
difficult to get the bat and Banks or
00:59:09
insurance or companies say you have a
00:59:11
lot of programmers they want to file a
00:59:13
patent application and UBS talk to the
00:59:16
need down on button department they
00:59:18
have closed everything here we simply
00:59:21
because it's extremely difficult for
00:59:23
them to get buttons not because of
00:59:25
software but because of this extrusion
00:59:27
of businessmen so it's for the purpose
00:59:30
of your software piece for example to
00:59:33
to evaluate. And I don't know the value
00:59:36
of a stock or shape after a few yeah
00:59:41
it's probably impossible to get the
00:59:43
patent in Europe for that even if the
00:59:45
modern mathematical model is completely
00:59:47
new even if the solution is new
00:59:50
probably where you were difficult to
00:59:51
get a protection also for games are not
00:59:56
patentable in your path the device
01:00:04
might be patentable and but or it might
01:00:07
be patentable but not a whole of games
01:00:12
not I don't know the computer game or
01:00:15
in any of those they mean a mono put
01:00:17
game maybe you could get the protection
01:00:20
for P C.'s of equipment that you with a
01:00:24
in your in your game but not for the
01:00:27
board games a search. And then you know
01:00:33
know about us yeah but you can't miss
01:00:36
votes are not patentable all the mess
01:00:38
so it's used by the physician by the
01:00:41
doctor of are not button about the
01:00:43
devices a button tab or the folks are
01:00:46
patentable. But the your doesn't stop
01:00:50
as an arm of the physician and know
01:00:52
when you're when he's working. So we
01:00:53
don't want to and you know to prevent
01:00:56
the someone from helping you from
01:00:58
showing you if you need a doctor and
01:01:03
the question so gonna criteria in order
01:01:10
to get the patent you you convention
01:01:12
needs to be new and it's so where any
01:01:16
absolute or criteria. So it's really a
01:01:19
absolute nobody everything that was
01:01:23
this close before your patent
01:01:25
application will be considered a plus
01:01:27
number to destroying so it's not only a
01:01:29
previews patent application it's really
01:01:31
anything that was disclosed in any
01:01:33
possible for a scientific it are just
01:01:38
showing you product to to someone else
01:01:42
no more disclosure might be already
01:01:44
destroying and this is even the case if
01:01:47
a disclose your was made by sentimental
01:01:49
himself which means that you can't
01:01:51
really speak about two invention to
01:01:53
anyone else before you file a patent
01:01:55
application. And this trip in India I
01:02:00
sing force you select your for this I
01:02:02
see see you have a general NDS into all
01:02:05
signed the document when you decided to
01:02:07
participate. And things are some
01:02:09
disposition for internal
01:02:13
confidentiality for everything that you
01:02:16
discussed internally so you are free to
01:02:18
discuss your invention within the
01:02:20
remote which is nice but if someone
01:02:26
consider a patent application later on
01:02:28
you can tell too force one oh I don't
01:02:31
want to speak to my invention to
01:02:33
someone and I don't want to speak to do
01:02:35
an idea I don't want to and they seem
01:02:37
to be published because I want to keep
01:02:39
the possibility to find a patent
01:02:41
application later on otherwise it's
01:02:45
done it you wanted to production. So
01:02:55
yeah yeah yeah everything that you want
01:03:11
to claim that you want to put into two
01:03:15
claims that must be disclosed the
01:03:17
previously. So if you have genetic you
01:03:20
just say oh I'm a software program at
01:03:22
one I'm developing a software for doing
01:03:24
this is and this okay it's not to
01:03:26
destroy that's not even knew but as
01:03:29
soon as you become to be more specific
01:03:31
on as soon as you can explain my
01:03:33
software is doing this as a name where
01:03:35
you happy because I'm the first one to
01:03:37
can this and this and this maybe you
01:03:40
you you want later on to file a one
01:03:43
claim for source the steps away a BC
01:03:47
and it's not possible anymore obviously
01:03:51
the patent office they won't learn that
01:03:53
we just discussed with someone about
01:03:55
convention and they want clown. But in
01:03:57
the case of litigation if it to sue
01:03:59
someone it's likely that that should we
01:04:02
just ask you is it really new argue
01:04:05
spoken to someone about your invention
01:04:08
previously and you are in a core and
01:04:10
you need to swear around to say oh yeah
01:04:12
by the way I just to discuss with only
01:04:14
a few friends without being too
01:04:17
specific so it might be you might your
01:04:21
part dies you over your patent. So we
01:04:25
have to be on the safe side to really
01:04:27
need an indy or or complete the
01:04:32
confidentiality but it's a difficult
01:04:37
it's very difficult to Texas decision
01:04:41
yeah sorry okay sorry because you can
01:04:47
find a patent application to already
01:04:49
you you want to discuss with a few
01:04:53
people's about you why do you want with
01:04:55
the people to conform to idea to try
01:04:57
and right this before you can decide to
01:04:59
file a patent application otherwise
01:05:01
it's story. But as soon as you do is is
01:05:04
it's not possible anymore so that that
01:05:07
sometimes a difficult situation on
01:05:09
where we need to lot of nondisclosure
01:05:11
agreements. So yeah cool again
01:05:18
unpublished any seemed about to
01:05:19
invention if you sing that a patent
01:05:22
application might be useful to let go
01:05:24
on and even negotiation with the
01:05:28
business part now always a supplier
01:05:30
might be changing the sun quite yeah
01:05:39
yeah this inventive step. So it's not
01:05:42
sufficient that when intervention is
01:05:43
new it most also involves an innovative
01:05:47
step back pro nobody is quite easily
01:05:53
swayed objective nobody's to just the
01:05:55
checking all the feature or you claims
01:05:58
software but and and you will see can I
01:06:00
find or those features in a single file
01:06:03
off the document. That's easy inventive
01:06:06
step. It's much more subjective. It's
01:06:08
really an up or in your of a way
01:06:11
finding whether or not a skewed pass on
01:06:14
in new specific technology we can
01:06:17
immediately automatically to the
01:06:20
claimed invention phase one process for
01:06:24
helping seed until she's or examine
01:06:26
else making this verification and I
01:06:29
don't want to go into all the details
01:06:32
but obviously this is a morse the
01:06:34
difficult part and the button and
01:06:36
granted process because a lot of
01:06:39
discussion on what is of use and what
01:06:41
is not obvious usually most
01:06:44
intervention not just combination of
01:06:46
existing since it square fair someone
01:06:49
comes within a entirely new idea an
01:06:52
entirely new physical a principal most
01:06:56
invention I just combination of a
01:06:58
different. P C.'s that you will find in
01:07:01
if you want I off the documents. And
01:07:03
the criteria is to see whether or not
01:07:06
you advantages of the combination would
01:07:10
have been a priori abuse for that
01:07:14
anyone else. I've been to document on
01:07:16
onto page on on on the table you will
01:07:18
see the benefits of a competition
01:07:21
always or not see benefits are not
01:07:23
predictable. It's a different ways of a
01:07:31
filing the patent application if you
01:07:34
want to go for an international patent
01:07:36
protection you will go to different
01:07:38
offices sizes button trophies a
01:07:41
national button proficient return on in
01:07:44
the most countries of the war so the
01:07:46
you and patent trophy that commands
01:07:48
buttons covering the war to fuel
01:07:51
including sits down on the as there is
01:07:53
a world international buttoned
01:07:56
organisation that you've got that can
01:07:58
also accept button application. So a
01:08:01
lot of different possibilities. And the
01:08:04
choice for one strategy for one's a
01:08:06
finding strategy one other funding
01:08:09
strategy will depends on cost from
01:08:12
strategies are more expensive. And on
01:08:16
the distribution of course lot of time.
01:08:20
So I've only describe the two
01:08:22
possibilities to a common possibilities
01:08:25
for for start ups which usually start
01:08:30
with the first meeting with a button
01:08:31
that only I we discuss about twenty
01:08:34
bench can be we tell you what you
01:08:37
saying whether or not it's excluded or
01:08:39
not way off done research will be met
01:08:43
by the button to donate apply off so to
01:08:45
see if it's clean you if it's a
01:08:48
different and of from the the power off
01:08:50
and I just surfed all is project is
01:08:55
they will have to patent application
01:08:57
and we discussed with your buttons that
01:08:59
on a about the patent application and
01:09:01
on the patent application will be fine
01:09:04
in this case here with this swiss
01:09:05
patent office us we like to work with
01:09:10
the swiss button trophies because it's
01:09:11
way cheaper the fees are way cheap and
01:09:14
because you get a certain people are
01:09:16
quite the fast after six months are use
01:09:19
Riley and you have the first the
01:09:21
feedback from button trophies and they
01:09:23
will tell you whether or not a light
01:09:26
your ID on whether or not the button
01:09:28
and we'll be one it or not. And if you
01:09:31
have to search report you put decide
01:09:33
after twelve months of does just
01:09:35
finding that she to file into an
01:09:37
astronaut buttons application for
01:09:39
example if you in your in the US and
01:09:42
Japan and and so on. And each of those
01:09:46
patent application and will claim
01:09:49
priority of the streets patent
01:09:51
application which means that if someone
01:09:54
else is file a patent application that
01:09:57
in job final sign of the same idea in
01:09:59
the meantime you could go to the
01:10:01
japanese or chinese button toffee some
01:10:03
them hey I was the first I have a swiss
01:10:07
patent application filed it before you
01:10:10
on see it will be recognised in almost
01:10:12
all countries worldwide more than one
01:10:15
hundred eighty countries so worldwide.
01:10:17
So we decide after twelve months in
01:10:25
which don't which you want to be
01:10:26
protected. And after that it will be an
01:10:30
optional decision. So it could be that
01:10:32
the buttons would be granted and hope
01:10:34
that it will be a projected dingy you
01:10:36
whereas because the criteria are and
01:10:39
and maybe it will be twenty eight but
01:10:41
with someone if addition in Japan now
01:10:43
in china for example. So quite a long
01:10:47
process takes usually four to five
01:10:49
years with a pointed patent it seems
01:10:52
extremely longer. But it's a long
01:10:55
because no one is really interested in
01:10:59
a fast process button of his job
01:11:02
examine our see overlooked of works
01:11:06
more than three hundred thousand patent
01:11:10
application filed every I mean you know
01:11:12
a whole lot of a backlog. So of course
01:11:17
it's easier for them to to delay the
01:11:20
work and for you or the button topic
01:11:22
and you are protected from day one only
01:11:25
things that you can do we can go to
01:11:27
court and is until your buttons
01:11:29
responded that if someone makes a copy
01:11:32
in the meantime. And you can send email
01:11:34
warning letter. And tell him how I have
01:11:37
a patent application and I'm confident
01:11:39
and that the button it will eventually
01:11:41
be reminded there. And the when the
01:11:44
button disk one two different guys team
01:11:47
extra copies to search the copy you
01:11:49
construe him and get them at least for
01:11:52
everything that that you made before
01:11:55
going. So you don't lose any wide too
01:11:58
many people are many applicants not
01:12:01
quite happy if it takes a lot of time
01:12:04
because it's a way of dealing cost the
01:12:08
need to pay some cost that too and I
01:12:11
need to find translation and you need
01:12:13
to find it to be publication fees and
01:12:15
so on. And many applicants are quite
01:12:17
happy second delay in fact in software
01:12:21
it's way come on also to fight patent
01:12:24
application just to get the protection
01:12:27
for a few years. And never care about I
01:12:32
became quite apart and swell quite
01:12:34
common even for large company find a
01:12:37
patent application patent application
01:12:39
will be published after eighteen months
01:12:41
on after we have screen yes when the
01:12:44
life of the product is over. We don't
01:12:46
care anymore if no one is copied other
01:12:49
solution and we don't either going to
01:12:52
button we only pays a grinder fees if
01:12:55
it's needed if the software Tina some
01:12:57
value of de for five yes and if someone
01:13:00
is making a copy but you see important
01:13:04
saying is that the one knows all there
01:13:06
is an option on six guys find a patent
01:13:07
application it's I start to make a copy
01:13:10
I have some waste and I don't know if
01:13:12
you want to pay the one fees or not
01:13:13
what yeah I it really depends on your
01:13:27
product if you are having a software
01:13:29
company yeah if you are developing
01:13:31
software application for mobile
01:13:33
equipment it could be weight faster you
01:13:35
quilt to file a patent application on
01:13:38
on on on the next day yeah you you sell
01:13:40
your product so it's completely fair if
01:13:43
you are in a file mine just feel maybe
01:13:45
you pour that we've come to the market
01:13:47
on the after then yeah for fifteen yeah
01:13:49
so when you have got their acceptance
01:13:51
so so it's really decision that depends
01:13:54
more on your product on the time to to
01:13:56
going go product so marker house also
01:13:59
on on the on the on the button process
01:14:04
itself you have really got protected
01:14:07
from his dates you so you can file a
01:14:09
patent application today and tomorrow
01:14:12
you make a publication and you make the
01:14:14
confines plus you sell your product are
01:14:17
protected one problem which is approach
01:14:23
is that you need to decide that the
01:14:26
countless knee which you want to be
01:14:28
protected quite soon after twelve
01:14:30
months are already and this might be
01:14:33
difficult in some industry after twelve
01:14:36
months it might be very difficult to
01:14:38
know you feel you want a production
01:14:40
means you whereas might be expensive
01:14:43
one is even more expensive on what
01:14:45
about the south away a for example on
01:14:47
pause willow maybe maybe not from most
01:14:51
photo after twelve months we don't have
01:14:54
a non swept from the market yet. And
01:14:57
you could make the wrong decision we
01:15:00
decide to to find a patent application
01:15:03
in and job and but that up and is not
01:15:06
so important house going eyes more
01:15:08
important than you discover this only
01:15:10
later especially for start up you don't
01:15:13
have an established market yet. So it
01:15:16
might you might need more than one you
01:15:18
have to decide the four under the hope
01:15:21
on if you need more time for the
01:15:25
decision what you can do we start the
01:15:27
same for example with the swiss patent
01:15:30
application or even the provisional
01:15:32
patent application an after twelve
01:15:34
twelve months instead of going not sure
01:15:37
not in your work US and up on what you
01:15:39
can do is to find a stroke gold intern
01:15:42
astronaut patent application on the PCT
01:15:45
application on file with the war in
01:15:47
their daughter property organisation in
01:15:49
Geneva I was so why whiteboard we
01:15:53
receive your patent application and
01:15:56
we'll give you a soft opinion a clean
01:15:59
only opinion one on the merits of your
01:16:02
application so you don't find any
01:16:04
button but there will accept it after
01:16:09
twenty eight months you get report on
01:16:14
the whiteboard there will tell you oh I
01:16:17
see to it's but an hello we see some
01:16:19
benefits that some married seventeen to
01:16:23
one claim the eight maybe between one
01:16:25
no way we don't see this is an
01:16:27
invention. And when you have received
01:16:31
this so we both of those soft amounts
01:16:33
of after this initial file in that you
01:16:35
can go to all the countries in which
01:16:38
you want which is just a way of dealing
01:16:41
is the cost on this you can foregoing
01:16:44
an action on I good thing also is that
01:16:48
you can say yeah a cure for the
01:16:50
hallmark of software have as internet's
01:16:53
strain on the button pending they're
01:16:55
doing this would be a good feel under
01:16:57
competitors I don't know what you want
01:17:00
to do save no idea on maybe you will
01:17:02
never go to south Galway or at the
01:17:04
compacted though and south going eyes
01:17:06
no idea whether or not you want to go
01:17:07
there. So it's slightly more expensive.
01:17:13
But the twos sings that always on why
01:17:15
start that way often throws a strategy
01:17:18
is that a deli you laser cost see why
01:17:21
important for a new companies have one
01:17:24
finds how one you or spend too they are
01:17:27
not the same value as one you will
01:17:30
spend in so if you want some so one
01:17:34
factor is that after sake amount you
01:17:36
are in a much better situation to
01:17:38
decide if your invention is if a view
01:17:42
on this we both way inequity will
01:17:45
decide to stop everything at a stage
01:17:48
and you only spend a maybe a toxin
01:17:50
sounds and us peace finds for
01:17:53
financially for the future cost. And
01:17:57
you don't have to to to support those
01:17:59
cost on the other hand if you
01:18:01
productive you which success one you
01:18:03
have found apart now you have found a
01:18:05
larger companies. And they want to help
01:18:08
you you could still say to this company
01:18:10
all you want to be protected in cannot
01:18:13
die you want to be protected in my days
01:18:15
yeah and the partly of course it's
01:18:17
still possible for more time we signed
01:18:20
another aspect we have about a ten
01:18:28
minutes or left I probably won't be in
01:18:32
the position to to discuss all the
01:18:34
points I have a few slides about we
01:18:37
don't want to hate which are which I
01:18:39
think are interesting. And trademarks
01:18:43
designed a few slides will have all the
01:18:46
information the document I if you I
01:18:48
don't know what you want if you want me
01:18:50
to after the free don't to pay to speak
01:18:52
about trademarks about design of you
01:18:54
have some questions it's you have to
01:18:56
you okay and then I suggest to speak
01:19:03
but we don't operate. And give you a
01:19:06
few information about about trademarks
01:19:08
and maybe a five minute question the
01:19:10
the it it and if it's okay for you. So
01:19:14
one aspect it is to find a patent
01:19:17
application and to be protected a
01:19:20
different aspect is to verify whether
01:19:23
or not you can sell your wonder if it's
01:19:25
possible for you to market your product
01:19:27
or if someone else usually as file a
01:19:31
patent application and that might
01:19:32
prevent you from printing you product
01:19:35
to the market put to do is is to verify
01:19:40
system make his check what you need is
01:19:42
if we don't open it soft. So soft for
01:19:45
previous teen embodied patent
01:19:47
application filed by compared it also I
01:19:50
might be newest against your product.
01:19:53
And obviously it's what you both want
01:19:55
to know that should spend a few moments
01:19:57
a few years in developing a product and
01:19:59
discover at the end of this development
01:20:01
that you can say anything because
01:20:03
someone a a large company maybe as five
01:20:06
the patent application and it's a
01:20:08
disaster happens quite often actually
01:20:11
so what what you can do is to do if we
01:20:14
don't to apply it the cost could be
01:20:17
anything will get some cheap we don't
01:20:20
to by so at least four maybe five
01:20:23
hundred swiss francs or if you want to
01:20:25
be exhaustive it will cost you maybe
01:20:28
one hundred thousand his friends and
01:20:30
anything in between is possible. So it
01:20:33
really depends on your technology if
01:20:36
you are developing yeah microprocessor
01:20:40
or in the new Intel microprocessor or
01:20:43
more than ten sows and buttons are
01:20:46
covering this technology. So we we need
01:20:48
the moans just to a five also ten
01:20:52
thousand but and all the claims made
01:20:54
some changes maybe it's a product and
01:20:57
the mitigated zero is by changing the
01:21:00
before the negotiating some licensees
01:21:03
taking some of basically huntley. So it
01:21:05
could be something where you would
01:21:07
feature more simple product and if the
01:21:10
button table feature was easier to
01:21:13
understand it could be done sometimes
01:21:15
in just a few hours but this is quite
01:21:21
important and this is something which
01:21:23
is required by many investors but I
01:21:26
think it's you can also be way easy
01:21:30
lost and if we don't operate if you
01:21:32
don't know exactly what you want to
01:21:34
sell you could be lost and you could
01:21:36
spend a lot of money. And T and so
01:21:39
works in just a little report a from a
01:21:42
company we used two one I decided
01:21:45
document and just seminary yes there
01:21:48
are some ways but you don't you don't
01:21:50
know what to do with this information.
01:21:53
And probably still want to sell your
01:21:55
product. So you have to do is this a
01:21:57
different stages height at the
01:22:00
beginning it probably a few company
01:22:02
just to see just some extremely dense
01:22:05
with buttons probably those buttons are
01:22:07
easier to find certified buy direct
01:22:09
competitors company is exactly the same
01:22:13
business proposition and they are more
01:22:15
likely to sue you sound more remote
01:22:19
their companies force it's necessary at
01:22:22
the beginning to see if your business
01:22:24
model is compatible with what is
01:22:26
existing. It's necessary to redo it if
01:22:29
when you are taking some decision on
01:22:32
the boat technical options and probably
01:22:34
you want to do it. So before you go to
01:22:38
invest all because the requested and
01:22:40
then discuss with you invest to tell
01:22:43
you we want if we do want to abate I
01:22:45
them exactly yeah okay fine I had it
01:22:47
done something but what do you want
01:22:49
exactly it's not possible to check or
01:22:52
the button and this more sunscreen on
01:22:56
Friday thousand patent application
01:22:58
valid only in return on the new file
01:23:00
you want to go to china or two US it's
01:23:04
even more more difficult to what levers
01:23:06
of security are you may be asking for
01:23:10
if it's you know best or bringing you
01:23:13
want the a few showers and no one
01:23:16
hundred thousand dollars to your
01:23:18
company the can't believe it with the
01:23:19
one hundred best and security
01:23:22
especially with software but if you are
01:23:25
I don't know intellectually market that
01:23:27
if you offsetting yeah some technology
01:23:30
why don't know who we view it on more
01:23:32
companion like is that they don't want
01:23:34
to take anyways is not possible for
01:23:36
them to bring a new looks a product to
01:23:38
the market. And be be forced to to stop
01:23:43
the marketing data before of an
01:23:45
infringement it would be a disaster on
01:23:48
damn of image. So yeah the might ask
01:23:51
you to make a lot of it shortens they
01:23:53
want to be on dial issue that are not
01:23:55
infringing any power buttons what you
01:24:03
can do. It's it's probably in this
01:24:05
essay at some stage with a button
01:24:08
thought on it to do this so that I was
01:24:10
had a manual to do you home or not
01:24:13
depends and spent some time in the
01:24:15
patent databases for example in this
01:24:18
past net dot com. So you which button
01:24:21
databases available for free by C
01:24:25
maintain buys you open button office
01:24:27
almost all the buttons are worldwide
01:24:30
are available even the chinese ones
01:24:32
that upon is wonderful and once
01:24:34
operated available it's an automatic
01:24:36
translation but those were some extent
01:24:40
you understand a little bit what's
01:24:41
about four spend some time. It's not
01:24:45
exhaustive it's not complete swayed
01:24:47
difficult to search but at least you
01:24:49
get some feeling of the density of
01:24:52
buttons in your fee to do for just one
01:24:54
or two power it tough to understand
01:24:57
that is it really then was that I'm
01:24:59
doing or can I find easily find a lot
01:25:02
of documents related to my technology
01:25:06
or is it something more unique. And
01:25:09
after just a few hours you will
01:25:10
probably know is it necessary now to
01:25:12
good process that and ask a
01:25:15
professional to do the freedom to
01:25:16
write. So do it every time you make
01:25:21
some technical this easy and make it
01:25:25
small checked in this past net or even
01:25:27
in Google buttons on and just with just
01:25:30
feeding down to make sure that you are
01:25:32
not the programming or developing
01:25:35
something which is already patented I
01:25:43
want this time to discuss about the
01:25:45
trademarks over design unless you have
01:25:48
a some question on or you want me to
01:25:50
say a few words about the trade marks
01:25:52
for design or not not if you have was a
01:25:55
questions more general questions yeah
01:26:00
about the the logo yeah yes oh oh oh oh
01:26:10
so the logo is very tasty way you need
01:26:27
might be protected by copyright or the
01:26:30
way the but it's difficult to you
01:26:32
really need some seeing me way origin
01:26:37
on I'm not sure if any one of those
01:26:40
logo via will be protected by copyright
01:26:43
this one certainly not just the F in a
01:26:47
blue square probably not be speaking of
01:26:50
this one and maybe would also probably
01:26:55
not so you don't know which company I'd
01:26:58
probably not sufficient we need a
01:27:00
trademark yeah a trademark protection.
01:27:02
So we yeah for yeah maybe just a few
01:27:12
words a trademark it could be just a
01:27:14
billboard trademark like those those
01:27:16
much here for just toward that will
01:27:18
protect or it could be a figurative
01:27:22
trademarks the logo or like those those
01:27:24
ones was all a trademark that we find
01:27:27
the recently. So any image could be a
01:27:30
trademark if it's useful I did not I
01:27:33
don't even identifying that as you all
01:27:36
mention of for product or it could be
01:27:38
any combination is for example a some
01:27:42
wall so with a specific being an anti
01:27:46
middle or does one off combine combine
01:27:51
trademarks. It's way off done you have
01:27:56
more value in available trademark
01:27:59
because it's less likely that you will
01:28:01
change the name of your product or the
01:28:03
name of your company. And logos are
01:28:07
more likely to evolve over time onto
01:28:09
what will change. And or list you as a
01:28:14
because watch connections words
01:28:16
different ways by the full no in the
01:28:20
phone who so in different ways logo or
01:28:23
sell more used to on paper or on the
01:28:26
screen but it's in this of the new that
01:28:30
will say on the billboard to a trade
01:28:33
marks and more likely to change and
01:28:35
every times so you chance we need to
01:28:37
find a new remote exactly yeah for
01:28:54
force trademark in the streets I don't
01:28:56
usually we just start with a trademark
01:28:59
in the competition in which you are
01:29:00
established or you need even to do
01:29:02
those is for example in to turn on the
01:29:05
trademark depends on the number of
01:29:07
classes that type of product but you
01:29:10
want to protect but if you for not
01:29:12
brokerages software company maybe one
01:29:14
thousand five hundred she's and so
01:29:17
forth with seven and and if you want to
01:29:19
extend the protection to other
01:29:21
countries you have six months to do it
01:29:23
is for your maybe squeeze house and you
01:29:27
will see maybe without the knows where
01:29:28
this whole for less than ten thousand
01:29:31
and you will get a protection and then
01:29:33
you home by and US but you don't need
01:29:38
to to do it immediately it's like a
01:29:41
domain name so it's the first one who
01:29:45
registered white mask and get it. So
01:29:47
you can start using your trademark and
01:29:50
this see all the market we reacts. And
01:29:52
see after a few weeks if Justin happy
01:29:54
with your trademark and decide to find
01:29:56
it on don't this is absolutely absolute
01:29:59
nobody requirements four buttons for
01:30:02
example yeah three or four oh one so
01:30:09
and our oh nine so it's okay it's a
01:30:22
five the is available remote as that
01:30:25
trademark yeah you can't use it was a
01:30:27
different design if it's for example a
01:30:31
Perl you can decide how I want to court
01:30:33
my computer up and but they just change
01:30:35
the design of the upper doesn't or to
01:30:38
go to an absolute protection for the
01:30:40
work out the completely independently
01:30:43
from the any design if it's a trademark
01:30:48
I don't know like us this one for for
01:30:53
most issues. So overall impression
01:30:56
isn't even an by the war the down to
01:31:00
but also budget image so it will be a
01:31:02
combination on on to judge will decide
01:31:05
always sings here's a figurative
01:31:07
elementary way important in this case.
01:31:10
So if someone is written value base
01:31:13
with a completely different designs
01:31:15
there is no respect for of any possible
01:31:18
one and this is a different trademark
01:31:20
maybe for for this one to ten of us
01:31:24
whizz bang off solar empire is is
01:31:28
figurative elements are less from it's
01:31:31
more won't which gives the general
01:31:33
impression. So it's really a case to
01:31:36
case situation. And at the end of the
01:31:39
day the judge will look at both when
01:31:42
mark and see what is the impression on
01:31:45
what is your face of confusion for the
01:31:47
consumer oh wow oh wow okay or maybe oh
01:32:01
oh no user in note it's even worse on
01:32:12
that in the use it in the USA might be
01:32:14
protected in the US eva even without
01:32:17
any registration entity and that you
01:32:20
should have to many products at EME to
01:32:22
means it's considered as a trademark
01:32:24
but it's not the hardest are trademarks
01:32:27
that you will markers and all so
01:32:30
trademark which is just you to some
01:32:34
extent over a long period of time in
01:32:36
the USB going to trade marks just
01:32:39
before because of this you know if it
01:32:41
was only you with one or two times in
01:32:44
the newspapers and one we it's probably
01:32:46
not stricter trademark but if it's the
01:32:49
U was was quite extensive over a longer
01:32:51
period of time when you submit to the
01:32:53
consumer oh no maybe or some tends to
01:32:56
know just when mark and associate just
01:32:58
when mark with a specific company might
01:33:01
be protected under it might prevent you
01:33:03
from using it be wrong even without any
01:33:05
vegetation apiece and you were in
01:33:08
fiction and in most Europe and then you
01:33:11
can count this you need to registration
01:33:13
but not always the case and even it's
01:33:16
it's a non if you five a trademark for
01:33:18
later on after this final you was it's
01:33:20
likely is that's a file or user can
01:33:23
still use it to the same extent
01:33:26
argument before so if you use that
01:33:29
trademark on his website and there's no
01:33:31
way you can afford to remove it from
01:33:33
his website. But maybe you won't be
01:33:36
able to use this trademark in the paper
01:33:38
advertising for example I hope. It's
01:33:43
clear enough some hours of questions
01:33:46
yeah about you see how that works for
01:33:50
trademark snyder okay I use more yeah
01:34:02
you can choose come on what you can
01:34:05
choose the common words for your class
01:34:07
of product for example if you are
01:34:09
selling operators you can't all the
01:34:13
trademark apple because it's just a
01:34:15
description of what you are doing if
01:34:17
you said the computer you can't
01:34:20
trademarks computer for faster
01:34:23
computer. But if you're selling the
01:34:26
computer coupon code your trademark
01:34:29
copper because a part is not the
01:34:31
strictly for computers to operate as a
01:34:34
mono poly for the use of the word apple
01:34:37
for computers but obviously no monopoly
01:34:40
for the use of this trademark for for
01:34:43
each or vegetables. then she's are
01:34:46
because you are a something like that
01:34:52
simple make someone's these and their
01:34:56
speakers. And I think so It's not that
01:35:00
trademark no way no way that you will
01:35:02
get them or not project for this one oh
01:35:05
and it's not even a good idea because
01:35:08
it's not it's indian identification of
01:35:11
companies so it's originality. And it's
01:35:16
not an identification of the specific
01:35:19
quality of product or services that you
01:35:22
want to or for so many start ups at the
01:35:25
beginning words this is exactly what
01:35:27
they want to do they want to explain
01:35:28
what they want to do it their way how
01:35:30
the is the name of the company is
01:35:32
already a description of what they are
01:35:34
offering but in the long pants but idea
01:35:37
because it's not possible to get the
01:35:39
protection on and because it's too
01:35:41
generic and it doesn't find in the
01:35:44
additional emotion on to the consumer.
01:35:47
So yeah my recommendation would be to
01:35:49
add some seeing the which is then tell
01:35:54
similar to us we can someone of the war
01:35:58
the maybe you name or the name of you
01:36:01
down maybe or yeah I don't know some
01:36:08
other questions yeah oh sorry yes what
01:36:19
actually I should not be why having
01:36:25
that fast yeah but I probably will the
01:36:29
yeah we're probably start with a
01:36:31
trademark and it's a non quite soon
01:36:33
because it's not so expensive and it's
01:36:36
an issue on that no one and this we get
01:36:38
the trademark forces name at least
01:36:40
about if you aren't it's on on but at
01:36:42
least in the con phase in which you are
01:36:44
working. So start with the national
01:36:46
trademark at least two gets is
01:36:48
protection. And you can extend the
01:36:51
later on as soon as you're making the
01:36:54
promotion advertising your trademark
01:36:56
into a specific country as entities
01:36:59
that you can start to use the extended
01:37:01
it you have a better the of six months
01:37:07
if you want to get us a priority data
01:37:10
if you wait more than six months it's
01:37:12
still possible that if someone else is
01:37:14
taken the trademark in the meantime you
01:37:16
would have had time switch over is but
01:37:19
if it's a no original trademark and if
01:37:21
no one knows that trademark. And this
01:37:23
other countries and like is that it
01:37:25
will be taken maybe but for many
01:37:31
software companies and especially what
01:37:34
company trademark could become
01:37:35
extremely important I think that for
01:37:37
orders company is of course a fantastic
01:37:40
technologies of course there are plenty
01:37:42
of buttons. But I think the values that
01:37:45
trademark after time is much more
01:37:46
important on the value of buttons. This
01:37:49
is certainly the case for you to review
01:37:51
it sure okay what are they doing charge
01:37:53
just drawing the video or something
01:37:55
videos I don't not saying that it's
01:37:58
very easy to do this in just extend but
01:38:00
out plenty of competitors like their
01:38:03
emotional no female plenty of
01:38:05
completely tossed doing exactly the
01:38:07
same no not too different way to only
01:38:10
value of you which will provide a
01:38:12
demotion of email with what is a
01:38:13
trademark and it's probably the same
01:38:16
for all those companies where people
01:38:19
consumers are getting used to a
01:38:21
specific company just by the name of
01:38:24
the company. So it tends to be
01:38:26
neglected at the beginning of the
01:38:28
creation I tends to be to become more
01:38:31
and more important so it's a long term
01:38:34
strategy yeah oh wow oh oh okay we we
01:39:13
right we with the buttons mean over
01:39:18
with a not a yeah yeah it really a
01:39:23
despite a decision I think if you can
01:39:25
have that as a problem right at the
01:39:27
beginning it's good so it was good to
01:39:29
have to know about the problem is you
01:39:31
know the problem at what what the beta
01:39:34
not knowing the problem. So it's almost
01:39:37
better if you go to invest on tells
01:39:39
them yes we do we don't know home or
01:39:41
something we've identified some
01:39:43
problems on Reno as ten buttons in our
01:39:47
feed something and then Isaac and but
01:39:48
and sound we have changed our product
01:39:51
of of coma the the two first and we
01:39:53
seem size no we problems with but and
01:39:58
number three two eight F and we have
01:40:01
number nine and then which are maybe a
01:40:03
problem and that we've decided not to
01:40:06
do anything because number ninety only
01:40:09
five don't know in Japan on the on the
01:40:11
confident and see if you can see into
01:40:14
chop and and the next five years. And
01:40:17
above then is that china and but we
01:40:19
have no choice so we take the risk and
01:40:21
they seem yeah sometimes yeah no choice
01:40:24
you take story score sometimes would to
01:40:26
the company because you sink you have
01:40:28
something to or four because you see
01:40:31
the company maybe only you with a
01:40:33
company and the maybe say might be
01:40:36
interested in having a deer is to you
01:40:39
by the technology you pay some fees and
01:40:41
had them into and trying to do some
01:40:44
market. And if you're not nothing to
01:40:46
offer a just a competitor or undressed
01:40:49
rules that we keep you wish should
01:40:50
discover that you exist maybe sometimes
01:40:54
you have to take your race yeah but
01:40:56
it's really a business decision oh sure
01:41:10
oh yeah oh we yeah we are we are we
01:41:46
have a lot of experiments usually what
01:41:48
the request a different model but
01:41:50
usually it's a mix between shelves and
01:41:54
wired his sore usually just on that it
01:41:59
depends on you really need to negotiate
01:42:01
you don't need to close to them if they
01:42:03
were that tell you I just and I just
01:42:04
tempted to definite sign yeah we
01:42:07
already have a some chance it'll
01:42:09
negotiating. So usually the standard
01:42:12
condition and is maybe seven S sense
01:42:16
express and the shape of your company.
01:42:20
And some why aren't is depending on the
01:42:22
technology that's seems to be quite
01:42:25
just done darts was here for a moment
01:42:28
A.'s not so much possibility to
01:42:30
negotiate but what you should already
01:42:32
negotiate is the field of you was
01:42:35
because way often they we give you a
01:42:37
lie sense or did to start up a I sense
01:42:39
for only a limited the domain of you.
01:42:43
And it's very important to be sure that
01:42:45
system in a few which is for the north
01:42:47
for what you're doing now and what you
01:42:49
will do that in the future oh oh oh
01:43:12
please yeah I don't think the different
01:43:21
was initially that change the require
01:43:26
where the for just a company to give
01:43:29
you what I sense. It's not going on
01:43:31
most the license are and to companies
01:43:35
to register companions. But I don't
01:43:38
saying that it is not possible to make
01:43:41
an exception. But I don't want to do is
01:43:43
to give license to keep the local small
01:43:46
companies which it take that I and fun
01:43:48
to know seeing busy whizzing invention
01:43:51
and then this invention history
01:43:53
sleeping was maybe see one plus two
01:43:55
which you would to them and tell the oh
01:43:57
I want to use this technology I don't
01:44:00
want to pay in the fee to synod you're
01:44:02
the quantified but I want to do
01:44:04
something and if on not convinced that
01:44:07
you'll really wants to to to bring some
01:44:09
way for the development of the
01:44:11
technology maybe they want sign. So
01:44:14
it's so expensive to create a companion
01:44:16
sits on on anymore. So maybe that's a
01:44:19
good sign of showing that really here
01:44:21
use P c.'s. But it should not be a for
01:44:24
the yeah but you can usually bring some
01:44:30
not only cash but if you have a
01:44:33
computer of your cos. So it's not
01:44:39
twenty thousand cash so yeah it's only
01:44:43
so if you explains that's too. And will
01:44:46
do we create the the shock convincing
01:44:49
and off it should be possible yes sorry
01:44:58
yeah yeah yeah oh no although arts the
01:45:13
button be known to the topic and and
01:45:16
invent also no white except in the the
01:45:19
white of being named to put it on their
01:45:22
resume that's it at least in most
01:45:26
contributions you was invent also have
01:45:29
a bit more why. But still at the end of
01:45:32
the day it's on this object and we can
01:45:34
decide we can use invents one for go
01:45:37
invent also need to sign on even the
01:45:40
confused it's really or the white we
01:45:42
don't have to count on it some with the
01:45:47
question right for oh right the most
01:46:04
common situation is to establish a
01:46:06
company fast and signs a license
01:46:08
agreement later but I think you could
01:46:11
really go to the studio of IPFL and
01:46:14
discuss about your specific situation
01:46:16
and and we could probably do both at
01:46:19
the same time and maybe they will tell
01:46:21
you it's not a problem and you don't
01:46:24
need the two produce a company now it's
01:46:27
perfectly okay should do we in six
01:46:29
months so yeah I think if you look
01:46:32
really cool and discuss with them
01:46:34
what's was are a lot of sudden
01:46:37
Switzerland for creating a company and
01:46:40
if you're creating an innovative
01:46:42
company star up top plenty of way of
01:46:45
getting some some seed money small
01:46:48
amounts but if two silence specific
01:46:50
kinds that we need to to create to
01:46:53
incorporate your company maybe find a
01:46:56
trust untapped addition and lot of
01:46:59
organisation would help you adjust
01:47:01
process which would look really if you
01:47:04
have a good solution with the ID would
01:47:06
get quality should not be a barrio
01:47:09
really some other questions if not the
01:47:15
same way much thank you for your

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Conference Program

IP strategies for Startups
Christophe Saam
6 Sept. 2016 · 9:01 a.m.
175 views

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