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In indications we do or have a common
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things of yeah all do all the panels up
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here yeah in the education this you
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have all the professors in educations.
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And about the panel I was talking about
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the tense discriminant so an actually
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that we have different the academic
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background we got together how can you
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usually the pursue companies other test
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utterance disparity interaction design.
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So we have today one the profit and
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resend of the richest together first I
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will introduce the panelists and we'll
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do it together rights to me is a
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proposal in in ten she is wearing
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multiple hats she's currently proposal
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in the department of industrial
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designer commercial design at I won a
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pack. And was so she is ultimately a
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proposal in the package of industrial
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design in at idle when you rest you
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technology in holland and she is a very
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well known as a a successful editor in
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chief it all interested turnover design
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and of the season five speed until I
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used the in addition she is also a
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professor in computer science
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department in investment Taiwan
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university and you just use the
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experienced team at the intent and to
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you centre for connected context and
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left to me that you borrow the people a
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post union he is appropriate so scroll
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design and home completely can
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university and the various is she's
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supposed to reinforce research section.
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And face the background is the
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socialite and we have Mike calling
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proposal union lean she is currently
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also ship proposals in industrial
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design that christ. And she's focusing
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on yeah developing new design
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approaches improve talking and
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understand you press experience and the
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run quickly and she's it come from all
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different kind of the and he is the
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currently prepare so in the scroll
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intractable arts and technology and a
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Simon Fraser university and was still
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eating proposal in industrial design at
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I'm probably most of the comedy a rhino
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is part of everyday design a studio at
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us I'm afraid to breast and we have yes
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we have a question we she is an an
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assistant assistant professor in the
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school about design upon completely
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university should teach interaction
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design they're a background is computer
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science and you pull a no no no no so
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it's in the sense that us down okay
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Yeah sorry okay I stunt of protocol. a
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proposal at it's yeah in the computer
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science department in the power horse
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interested then mark just been teaching
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there or what do you use she's very
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well known oh how what in this picture
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design activity you call a it's yeah
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and lastly not is we have any previous
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is not currently flush a proposal a
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scroll informatics and computing. And
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also really she's object to the it's
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like indian was to remain calm. And I
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was so he's ultimately of visiting
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prophesy upon completely university
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myself I'm proposal that industrial
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design in contest I mean teaching
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twenty seven years during those spewed
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I was the in eighty four twenty half
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years as a fixed effected vice
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president. So I know people over the
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practise and Delius were and according
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to the also I'm I'm the president to
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intonational association oval. So site
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of design so it's so they are we have
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you want to for a different mixtures of
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the panels and backgrounds. So we do
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hope that we have a nice and those but
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niceties questions we we strongly
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encourage that you to any as the this
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question together okay right Uh_huh or
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mm you want to. Q or that that is So
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here's the thing that the trends
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disciplinary doesn't actually refer to
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the same concepts as this just yes
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disciplinary is an approach a
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particular problem space using the
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single that's within the single domain
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of expertise well multidisciplinary is
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an approach for a particular problem
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space using coordinated of what's from
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this thing collections of that that's
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too restrictive respective just think
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domains of that case interdisciplinary
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is an approach to particular problems
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these is it's from combine collections
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method that want to come by this
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princess disciplinary already is that
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actually an orthogonal concept refers
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to sort of approach which focuses nicer
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on collections of method or domains of
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expertise rather focuses on a broader
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goal transcending them that's the
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important word there transcending or
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disciplinarian and using collections of
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methods and their associated domains of
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expertise on an as needed basis this
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week pursue this target or so our goal
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here is really too concept works or
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doesn't work in design and it's know I
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haven't fully referenced the notions of
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transfer we make a plug for the
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interactions several of us all billions
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of interaction designers and they're in
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the references and the trip
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attributions for the notion of
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princess. So with that are oh oh okay
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right yeah I Um for my part I would
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like to talk about one example chorus
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taught that has to beat I think
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probably a good example to think of a
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lot of be possible format for trance
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disciplinary education actually in this
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discourse discourse. It's not directly
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related to the HCI area but transit is
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being a ready actually goes beyond this
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clean so justice disciplinary education
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may be applicable for or any to me oh
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oh oh area. So for this for as it was a
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ford for fashion and and second ended
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with this didn't sit christ. And it's
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talking about like colour and life. And
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For discourse three professor they're
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teaching to get in its professor has
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their own expertise still like for
00:08:54
example one professor his expertise in
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fifty eight and it's about physical
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properties in principle I and another
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professor whose expertise in violin
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brain engineering it is about like like
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that life science and human beat and
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and then either professor afford
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expertise in our design a psychology
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talks about colour process standing
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colour practise the interesting part of
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this course to me. It's a fourth
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probably first aspect I think would be
00:09:27
related to test this an education
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format is that it's of the professors
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it's it's about their own expertise but
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that not only does your attic or
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philosophical level but very in in
00:09:39
clerical and practical up. And they
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don't try to intermingle on their
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expertise with other artistically so
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they teach their bonus expertise one
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and then what kinds of another
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interesting aspect for me it's a
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possible making possible for try this
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education is a form of their final
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assignment. So in this or or if we
00:10:06
define assignment students were asked
00:10:08
to take a stream photographs and it's
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only that course that's not it at all
00:10:13
about how to take a good for grass any
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skills of taking photographs but they
00:10:20
need to you realise the X it S or the
00:10:23
knowledge they then from this chorus
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out from those three these different is
00:10:29
that and then they come up but it's a
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take a for so and it it just some
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examples are students too and I just
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like to share one photograph although
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instructor it's really light and also
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myself I think it's a good photograph
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as well which was taken by a second you
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know the greatest get and "'cause" X
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first major is in time is not indeed I
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don't photograph at all. And and but
00:11:01
and then in this assignment the teacher
00:11:05
ask the student to describe about the
00:11:07
photograph utilising now these what
00:11:10
kind of dog thought about taking slow.
00:11:14
So if I do this location statements
00:11:17
students what are probably the most
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common reflective object in our daily
00:11:22
life would be blessed is the density
00:11:25
feature one and water oh it it actually
00:11:28
I wanted to express your flip
00:11:29
distortion parts a reflection of light
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aberration and difference it in black
00:11:35
sense of well being to the shape of and
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maybe this kind of things in my so if
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it's another I think the interesting
00:11:44
possible want to think about it it just
00:11:47
education and it's is that actually the
00:11:50
giving the assignment fine assignment
00:11:52
that was beyond the now that they have
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right from the but can help them to you
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realise that now we into the I know and
00:12:04
that there aspect of are trance is in
00:12:07
education I think is more so in the
00:12:11
form of the class as well in Christ we
00:12:15
have I I mean the program for education
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three point zero are inmates actually
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there will be no lecture it's keep it
00:12:25
in class are but the order that there's
00:12:28
a need to be recording a video by
00:12:30
instructors in a what you online before
00:12:32
they come to class. So they in the
00:12:35
class instructor to be about problem or
00:12:40
in classic TVD in students start them
00:12:43
together as a team and what divided out
00:12:45
by things too with it's a room to get
00:12:50
and I liked and my part of top by
00:12:53
reading. This statement we is what it's
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really can be yeah yeah by the multiple
00:13:01
instructors for dividing the students
00:13:03
together in class it's a change in
00:13:06
education three point zero in this
00:13:08
excerpt from it's from the paper
00:13:10
written by stockholders who was talking
00:13:12
about science of chance if you know it.
00:13:16
And you think that these these are
00:13:18
requirement for trade specifically
00:13:22
trance disciplinary required at the
00:13:24
wrestle opening is tolerance and
00:13:27
respect word prospective different from
00:13:30
one oh and a commitment to each
00:13:33
children in indication of process it
00:13:36
need crunch I think values and conflict
00:13:38
of interest both Katie intersected if
00:13:41
not higher yeah right okay yes I mean I
00:14:13
think it's interesting you also showed
00:14:16
class so I had a background for right
00:14:21
there not its E as you I is missing
00:14:26
their own so basically there's no fixed
00:14:29
tables just get a sense undergrad
00:14:36
program be a interactive media ignore
00:14:39
university of Hong Kong in school so so
00:14:48
is really interesting use example they
00:14:51
have over all my like three professors
00:14:55
from three so now I want to switch
00:14:59
perspective a little bit we also have
00:15:01
professors from different backgrounds
00:15:03
but I want to take a look at or you
00:15:06
know do you choose to take a look at
00:15:08
the the students and composition right
00:15:11
so so cost for a bit and think about
00:15:14
the the background of viewers. Um where
00:15:18
do the originally come from right. Um
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so this is the list I guess is not all
00:15:26
inclusive. Um for our master of design
00:15:31
program it's when you're programming
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offered by school design so this is
00:15:38
pretty much the discipline means or
00:15:41
students come from. So loosely based on
00:15:45
the percentage right so most likely
00:15:48
we're gonna take students from
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industrial design from before and then
00:15:52
other there there are certain this is
00:15:54
master level right so as you know there
00:15:56
are not many too many undergrad
00:15:59
interaction design degree program. So
00:16:03
so that actually come usually less than
00:16:05
industrial design students some
00:16:08
students to have the interaction design
00:16:10
background before the come to a master
00:16:13
of design. And then we also usually we
00:16:16
always have communication usually
00:16:19
visual design and also people have fine
00:16:22
art degree and the also they're special
00:16:26
few would easy design still a lot of
00:16:28
them are graphic design. And then
00:16:30
advertising usually media or multimedia
00:16:34
whatever they call it sometimes
00:16:38
architecture sometimes psychology
00:16:41
sometimes information engineering were
00:16:43
electrical engineering. And then
00:16:46
sometime computer science and software
00:16:48
engineer occasionally we're gonna have
00:16:50
some business people who actually I
00:16:53
think that they're undergrad training
00:16:55
is probably doesn't matter already
00:16:57
because they already work in different
00:16:59
field for like six years three years or
00:17:01
there you even their own but also their
00:17:03
company. So what we do have those
00:17:05
examples as well. Oh so it it see in so
00:17:10
yeah that's our master of design
00:17:13
programming interaction design so
00:17:15
that's the program so it's interesting
00:17:18
to see each year we're gonna have
00:17:21
slightly different combinations right
00:17:23
"'cause" you know it's probably based
00:17:25
on your luck. And but I'm thinking you
00:17:30
know like a when we introduce this
00:17:32
concept of utterance this plenary and E
00:17:36
in our abstract I think we want to
00:17:39
emphasise that you orientation in there
00:17:42
like how do we really bring them
00:17:44
together and work towards the same goal
00:17:47
whereas the also go through certain
00:17:50
level of transformation and not just to
00:17:52
carry their originals goals and you
00:17:54
know for they're doing what they're
00:17:56
doing it what what they're doing right.
00:17:58
So I'm gonna just quickly give you
00:18:01
examples in just to provide you some
00:18:04
talking point and probably we're gonna
00:18:05
come back to the question later so this
00:18:08
is the a student project from a course
00:18:13
called embedded interaction workshop.
00:18:18
So basically in this very short to
00:18:20
credit course us students learn to
00:18:23
pretty much I mean all right so and
00:18:25
whatever programming languages they
00:18:27
they feel suitable for example the they
00:18:30
could use I'm ninety advent war or they
00:18:33
could use processing just to you know
00:18:35
connect the software and hardware
00:18:37
together a so it's not a put that
00:18:41
picture here it's it's just a different
00:18:43
thing right but I feel this is this is
00:18:46
of course not talk like me and I went
00:18:48
to their final presentation I just feel
00:18:51
this is a project it down by two
00:18:53
actually yeah one communication design
00:18:56
student from before and one interactive
00:18:59
media. And to industrial design
00:19:01
students that I I was talking I'm
00:19:03
talking about their previous training
00:19:05
okay so then they put together this
00:19:07
thing this thing pretty much at the
00:19:09
final demo they fall apart because they
00:19:12
they're too ambitious and then there's
00:19:14
the system can can consist of too many
00:19:17
parts. So there is this robotic arm and
00:19:20
if you can see there's a chance loosen
00:19:22
transparent to you which I have to you
00:19:24
hold a magnet and so that they can
00:19:26
actually pick up the little Fish it's
00:19:28
always some fish. And you think this
00:19:30
property is simple enough but then they
00:19:32
add to the level of complexity they
00:19:35
decide somehow to use kinetic. And
00:19:38
gesture control instead of a remote a
00:19:40
direct property button control. So at
00:19:44
the end it in gold really far and so I
00:19:47
went to just regarded this kind of work
00:19:49
as you know generally I caught it
00:19:51
interactive works with probably just
00:19:53
for fun right another example is this
00:19:56
one I think it is you know they put
00:19:59
together or nicer so this is a you know
00:20:03
basically I had to looking alarmed oh
00:20:06
so you have like a very simple and
00:20:10
padding or you know listen gene cannot
00:20:13
that's to gestures and then they show
00:20:15
different face this of course it also
00:20:17
comes with a mobile. So you can have
00:20:20
different interaction with this clock
00:20:22
alarm clock again this team it consists
00:20:25
of to interfere industrial designers
00:20:27
and to visual I think you should know.
00:20:30
So so I would say this thing they put
00:20:33
together really nicely well you my
00:20:35
personal your and not trying to judge
00:20:37
them now and just rolling two examples
00:20:40
right so again same course and then the
00:20:44
next slide is I wanna show you a little
00:20:46
bit before and after so so I doubt this
00:20:52
as value oriented design because in the
00:20:55
before slight right before picture. So
00:20:58
this is one example of wine I a sensor
00:21:04
based bus gate. So that when the dog
00:21:08
owner take a dog onto the past and then
00:21:11
it can sense and then the other bus
00:21:14
rubber come actually check at the dogs
00:21:17
on history and to you know basically
00:21:20
accommodated the other level whether
00:21:22
she should be cultures where reminded
00:21:24
the passenger whatever so basically
00:21:26
tossed behaviour try imaginary design.
00:21:30
So there's a little bit hard part
00:21:33
enough hardware and software and so
00:21:35
it's interesting to see all these for
00:21:38
people right and pull out that together
00:21:41
it so this is a group project before
00:21:43
and now after section it's actually the
00:21:47
four designs individual capstone
00:21:49
project came up you know I sickly down
00:21:53
by these for students the first one
00:21:55
this students is from I caught it at
00:21:58
their background which is the case you
00:22:01
know if you work for a long time right
00:22:03
so he did some sensor based you know
00:22:06
since then for health care and the
00:22:09
other one and media art student product
00:22:11
together installation and third one our
00:22:15
design full of a wearable device with
00:22:17
an A And then of course one applied art
00:22:20
student put up mobile I have for taking
00:22:24
notes for they should be visually her
00:22:29
people so Oh are actually I just give
00:22:54
mild climate metal I was cherry picking
00:22:56
similar questions in the abstract base
00:22:58
so much but the real question that's
00:23:05
what else. I don't understand yeah we
00:23:09
did right is think it's a starting
00:23:13
units with that but you want to like
00:23:18
it's really more but desires fears on
00:23:23
it and yeah that's and next eight
00:23:31
thousand five foundations trance
00:23:33
narrative. And talks about the desire
00:23:37
what the desire and fear that is
00:23:39
necessary can approach the ideas water
00:23:42
alright why don't carried by and hair
00:23:48
is some destruction the social fabric
00:23:52
last really speaks what actually ask
00:24:01
these are cheap you just all these yeah
00:24:03
we also trance disparity in some way we
00:24:09
similar. But it's something that we
00:24:12
actually is the space I think that
00:24:14
we're actually working we try to
00:24:15
implement it in terms of education. So
00:24:20
you know I think about where is your
00:24:23
design three going yeah it is the more
00:24:29
practical and yours you may yes but
00:24:37
this is real channel and again real
00:24:41
simple as I just go back next actually
00:24:44
uses here some channel. And channel is
00:24:47
really the university or university
00:24:49
academic are gonna this is like
00:24:52
insurmountable you see that a lot of
00:24:55
mixed attempts really happened on a
00:24:58
much more personal and so I do wanna
00:25:03
give examples for some talking points.
00:25:05
And I really think that some of these
00:25:07
about places and really trying to dress
00:25:12
like escape reality it's thought Chris
00:25:17
budgeting course I I I didn't I don't
00:25:21
know really tie that forces in two
00:25:23
thousand and I was on sustainability so
00:25:25
sorry or still does. So we spent the
00:25:27
first three weeks the class with it'd
00:25:29
devising actually connotation I'm sure
00:25:32
many had done something very similar to
00:25:33
this. Um but you can see we create a
00:25:35
what we're gonna try to do. And then it
00:25:37
all volunteered to say what they're
00:25:39
gonna be responsible for and how it
00:25:41
attack. S so in a sense the really the
00:25:44
shifting away from the that are you
00:25:49
notable facilitation where this is
00:25:51
within of course was actually like
00:25:53
enough to work well attributes called
00:25:54
city studio which is in Vancouver it's
00:25:57
better shifting place. And here this is
00:25:59
simply one way to get around your wrist
00:26:01
your academic structure not or just the
00:26:06
same studio is a side of learning. And
00:26:09
this or is that look at to be one of
00:26:13
these which we use the cities you you
00:26:17
we work with the city Vancouver and we
00:26:19
say well what we do what we do with we
00:26:22
chose is just see as a theme
00:26:23
speculation we are they came back and I
00:26:27
want us to speculate on community
00:26:29
relations. So I doubt that and water
00:26:33
fountains in of course this Tuesday
00:26:37
route backgrounds but really it was
00:26:39
about typical kind of structures role
00:26:43
another example I wanna bring up which
00:26:48
is also from my neighbours inside which
00:26:51
is of course also test and I'll very
00:26:54
similar structure university structures
00:26:56
gonna scale it and here it simply
00:27:00
anybody can often volatility anybody
00:27:03
can wanted you know one course for the
00:27:05
all semester. And you might pick a few
00:27:07
minutes was again one of but I am
00:27:09
actually paper just are education might
00:27:13
I you know I and they figuring all your
00:27:18
learning resource and I'm gonna and
00:27:22
because I I am that now visiting it
00:27:26
desolate apartment this is there more
00:27:32
model an actual design program right
00:27:37
specifically relates make the attempt
00:27:41
to talk oh it's to war yep yeah okay oh
00:28:05
yeah okay yeah not really examples
00:28:18
because I'm not quite sure if to missed
00:28:19
interest is going there if mean every
00:28:23
interaction more like in the tent
00:28:25
example I want to face the that's a a
00:28:32
lot of the times I some sometimes like
00:28:34
a really where we get people emphasise
00:28:37
that this in every entrance is in there
00:28:39
is so much that we tend to forget that
00:28:42
we also really really need experts in
00:28:45
specific is if we now if we have a
00:28:49
interdisciplinary team working on a
00:28:51
specific project and everybody is the
00:28:53
the disciplinary expert then I'm going
00:28:56
to be really so I I would like to say
00:29:00
that I I think in education we we need
00:29:04
to ask students to look at everybody's
00:29:07
ex straight. And if you have really
00:29:10
good at mathematics it's perfectly okay
00:29:13
to become an X engineer but how many of
00:29:20
us we at times we are going to
00:29:23
mathematics but also we have at
00:29:25
interface. And it is good to try to
00:29:27
explore the two other possibilities to
00:29:30
in knowledge about as a second this
00:29:32
thing every so that you have the
00:29:33
ability to communicate across this in
00:29:37
is clean or that you are able to you
00:29:41
both specific amount of time sufficient
00:29:44
amount of time so that you can you
00:29:46
become experts in than one area do able
00:29:49
to see a problem. This. So I I'm trying
00:29:53
to say that they have many different
00:29:55
possibilities here. Um and now I'm
00:29:58
going to try to give a few that ads
00:30:03
both in one about nine so in time
00:30:07
that's not that one university has try
00:30:13
to bring designers and computer science
00:30:15
student so for one example I'm very
00:30:19
good at that prefers the reality of
00:30:21
because I'm going to use course that's
00:30:26
the whole meeting from a national
00:30:27
Taiwan university's computer science
00:30:29
department also professor from a a
00:30:34
department of industrial and commercial
00:30:36
design in a national in Taiwan take on
00:30:39
and off okay all these details of
00:30:49
craftsmanship is is and the actual
00:30:53
implementation that the each of the
00:30:56
prototype is about both is a workable
00:30:59
prototype. So it's a combination of
00:31:02
high with software but also design as a
00:31:05
love for the right yeah I'm just so we
00:31:09
have and I also of was in a a product
00:31:13
design innovation in the computer
00:31:14
science department just so that I can
00:31:16
bring designers and design thinking
00:31:19
close to two because I do that yeah I
00:31:23
think that I would really want to say
00:31:24
here is that and it's round that so
00:31:31
sometimes it might be important and
00:31:33
also to that students take initiative.
00:31:36
I mean it is if we tried all overall
00:31:39
he's in this it is we have recourse is
00:31:41
but the students do not have the tribal
00:31:43
motivations than a lot of things line
00:31:46
up with that well I was really we have
00:31:49
that the students in Taiwan into got
00:31:51
the initiative so in two thousand nine
00:31:54
a bunch of students computer science
00:31:56
students from national Taiwan
00:31:57
university if you could that they
00:31:59
wanted to know more about it's yeah and
00:32:02
so they themselves organise a workshop.
00:32:06
And I was I was finding really
00:32:08
interesting because they just this all
00:32:10
these names that they wanted to comment
00:32:12
you but top I mean but over there. So
00:32:20
the second one shot time it is no
00:32:25
longer the national Taiwan university
00:32:27
but also Taiwan takes design students
00:32:29
begin to join jointly organise this
00:32:31
workshop more than one thousand a
00:32:34
student participants come from computer
00:32:36
science industrial design psychology
00:32:38
business administration all kinds of
00:32:40
different departments. And I want to
00:32:42
emphasise that it's not yeah I in this
00:32:49
you have to organise you that organised
00:32:53
by this right organisation is in two
00:32:58
thousand twelve oh okay we can and then
00:33:20
the voice my so three universities
00:33:25
working on it. Um I want to see if I
00:33:29
can still you know I was going to wear
00:33:40
well you're so you know way it's it's
00:33:57
or it's yeah but anyway yeah okay okay
00:34:25
I just so oh okay yeah okay yeah yeah
00:35:15
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you
00:35:21
know so this composers that is not
00:35:24
gonna yeah okay okay okay just I just
00:35:30
maybe I decided they wanted an just I
00:35:34
just the one we week just okay okay and
00:35:39
it's use this I well I suppose yeah
00:35:46
yes. And that this is I mean I was
00:35:51
don't know I just I just I technology
00:35:57
which I think is a just as yes yeah
00:36:02
okay okay okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:36:10
yeah yeah yeah yeah and okay we oh okay
00:36:54
thank you and so this is the one that
00:36:57
is thousand as volunteers and use the
00:37:03
industrial design program at UE has
00:37:06
been trying to the actual design
00:37:20
precisely because of the fact that this
00:37:22
area tend to be highly into this thing
00:37:25
he needs expertise in many different
00:37:28
okay and finally at when yeah I mean
00:37:38
okay it's oh what I yeah oh oh oh oh oh
00:38:45
oh oh oh oh know oh oh okay yeah oh
00:39:29
yeah Yeah I said yeah I definitely I
00:39:54
just I I oh yes. I really like this.
00:40:02
Uh_huh you just trying to say that yeah
00:40:45
yeah yeah yeah yeah okay no so that
00:41:01
that yeah I want to saying yes okay so
00:41:14
I was confined participant in this and
00:41:18
and to be honest I and had some
00:41:21
struggling see here because while I've
00:41:24
been teaching and in with people in my
00:41:27
department what we need is we've been
00:41:29
teaching it's CRI I mean I I not sure
00:41:34
and I think we all discuss that with
00:41:35
the exchange disciplinary but I want to
00:41:38
just responders keep you off by saying
00:41:41
a little bit of the experiences we have
00:41:43
from the last I mean yes I decided to
00:41:46
show some pictures and if you get or
00:41:48
you can try to see if you can identify
00:41:51
some of the people in these pictures
00:41:53
because some of them I hear some of the
00:41:56
mind is true all those are I think one
00:41:58
for so he's cool. So I can around
00:42:04
nineteen eighty that the computer
00:42:08
science department I don't university
00:42:11
together with a few people most yeah
00:42:15
not these beautiful we're honest and
00:42:18
was it came from the arts and
00:42:20
humanities created a and education for
00:42:25
a human computer find when is difficult
00:42:27
to see pictures is that bottom and so
00:42:32
in that sense we want from pure CS onto
00:42:35
something else that was inspired from
00:42:37
the arts and humanities already around
00:42:39
nineteen eighty in the nineties. And
00:42:42
nineteen nineties we had a really shy
00:42:47
curriculum and and moving into the the
00:42:51
two thousands we had a multimedia
00:42:53
program crossing across these these two
00:42:58
departments and also it's the is so
00:43:03
where we're at right now is actually
00:43:05
the stage where we are diversifying we
00:43:07
have more we actually have like four or
00:43:10
five different locations where a CI and
00:43:13
and possibly also designing these
00:43:15
detection design place several in these
00:43:18
departments I live in by by talking to
00:43:21
did you know what I see is the that if
00:43:23
I want to also mentioned that trial
00:43:27
thing is we've had quite nice
00:43:29
collaboration with them the folks in
00:43:32
CNN and to new is here around this
00:43:36
think about this in the design project
00:43:38
where students from a variety of
00:43:41
different departments in groups across
00:43:43
your what brought together to share
00:43:45
their experiences and share with each
00:43:47
other this and the teachers and the
00:43:51
some projects that they had done all
00:43:53
along and although then don't from
00:43:57
being in this beautiful setting outside
00:43:59
of CNN which we where we can no longer
00:44:02
go it was a very excellent place for
00:44:05
them to get together and to learn to
00:44:08
have some nice italian food and wine
00:44:10
you know so what they in the in the
00:44:17
sorry for this workshop there was some
00:44:19
mentioning all my my autocad two
00:44:22
thousand and six paper when I talk
00:44:24
about the same thing with the way but
00:44:26
it's yeah I and I think I want to not
00:44:30
discuss whether or not the the the
00:44:32
interpretation make there is the right
00:44:34
one I want to just step back and use
00:44:37
this a little bit for my own purpose
00:44:39
here. So actually I think when we
00:44:43
started doing these like for instance
00:44:45
is humanistic education in the you
00:44:49
don't whisper thank you for anybody you
00:44:54
moderate see I was but it was certainly
00:44:56
at the time when when a GI with
00:44:59
starting in when the kind conferences
00:45:01
or also so restarting not I don't think
00:45:06
I have to repeat that that that you're
00:45:09
really sort of their Reading framing
00:45:11
pretty much should come sadistic
00:45:14
framing and it sort of inspiration from
00:45:16
human factors the second way which I
00:45:19
think I I saw helps myself was pretty
00:45:25
much and a more from the human factors
00:45:28
to human X.'s basically abandoned
00:45:29
colours it was a lot more focus on
00:45:32
people I should say things in and
00:45:35
intention to a large extent I within.
00:45:39
Well established communes is pricks
00:45:42
participatory to sign came to be
00:45:44
important along with the radical frame
00:45:46
such is situated she just issue this is
00:45:51
okay okay okay how about the sound and
00:45:56
some so that that in the five way which
00:46:02
is where I end and which I think is
00:46:04
where we possibly still struggling and
00:46:07
not in the fourth of course way who
00:46:10
knows. Um these these use context
00:46:14
broughton. And the technologies course
00:46:18
as we all know spreading to use various
00:46:21
sectors of life outside the workplace
00:46:23
and colours culture emotion experience
00:46:26
and those kind of words training set in
00:46:30
so what I pointed out in two thousand
00:46:35
six I basically if we use the slides
00:46:37
you it's like the authentic. Um is that
00:46:43
there seems to be this divide between
00:46:45
working and they should live here and
00:46:47
between rationality and emotion and so
00:46:49
wonderful. So forth. And in a sense as
00:46:52
a conclusion of my my you know at the
00:46:54
time was that we need to embrace you
00:46:58
whole life since contains these like
00:47:00
culture. So what kind of challenges
00:47:04
twice this year to M said trends
00:47:08
disciplinary education. I think one
00:47:12
problems like that that we've been
00:47:15
facing many times in these quite many
00:47:18
years it always is that they're they're
00:47:20
always seems to be Mall like that it
00:47:24
that students need to know more about
00:47:27
why the state officials and so what I
00:47:30
the same time and and you're also
00:47:31
pretty much agree willingly that there
00:47:33
is also a need that to have some fun
00:47:36
groups and some sort this at off
00:47:38
there's also to some extent attention
00:47:43
between these various theories and then
00:47:46
just so straightforward what do you
00:47:49
think we need to take people also
00:47:53
sometimes known as uses seriously. So I
00:47:57
think in a sense that it's a lot. And
00:48:01
that's actually why I think in right
00:48:03
now what we're doing it all should bust
00:48:05
it is in the sense like there was a
00:48:07
fine. We have we have all these
00:48:10
different kind of education that that
00:48:14
come from various different disciplines
00:48:16
but we actually do not try to make one
00:48:21
one thing I think that most of the
00:48:22
interesting for instance to do more in
00:48:24
terms of bring the students together.
00:48:27
And and share that projects maybe
00:48:30
pretty much along the same lines is the
00:48:33
is in the design they do I oh remember
00:48:50
variable no but this question yes.
00:49:03
here's a policy yes. Thank you. Thank
00:49:18
you for that I thank you for the
00:49:20
audience as well as the years of
00:49:23
interesting talks. Um first I would
00:49:26
like to ask analysts whether they have
00:49:28
some so please use a few minutes for
00:49:38
discussion. So But it was to start okay
00:49:48
no yeah it seems to be some some so the
00:50:01
sun was okay and transcript ethernet is
00:50:14
more easy SS linguists more diapers
00:50:20
oops okay MM actually to me compared to
00:50:36
the hope that you I don't you know like
00:50:40
there's someone what is basically what
00:50:46
I was thinking that very interesting
00:50:49
thing about the common terminology
00:50:51
benign seeing what's that yeah I still
00:50:54
do the example chorus and then I talked
00:50:57
about the their finals and actually the
00:50:59
profits of with one of the professors
00:51:01
who who used it good teaching the
00:51:04
course it here and be see the plan a
00:51:08
and might actually that the the
00:51:12
students don't have the skills of how
00:51:14
to take a for breath to the in you you
00:51:15
know way they needed to I think about
00:51:18
kind of the constable what to take
00:51:20
utilising the expertise about the
00:51:23
different disciplines not related to
00:51:25
photograph the directory and then with
00:51:27
the meaning talked about the how dumb
00:51:30
students were kind of initiating the
00:51:34
new gathering together without any help
00:51:40
from the professor in any guidance. So
00:51:43
that seems to be kind of commonly
00:51:45
writing maybe talk about transit is
00:51:47
there'd be they kind of independence of
00:51:50
coming up with the news thing on
00:51:52
mediated from more like a bottom all
00:51:56
that kind of you know directed by
00:51:58
certain kind of discipline oriented we
00:52:02
of thinking so I thought that that
00:52:04
seems to be quite interesting thing
00:52:06
I'll we start to see more interested
00:52:08
not only in that discipline kind of a
00:52:11
academics I was filthy that that's
00:52:13
happening in the war that well like we
00:52:15
are seeing more and more start off and
00:52:18
you know the I one man and kind of
00:52:21
progress through the FTV seems into
00:52:24
quite interesting to me you know I'm
00:52:27
starting to see I reaction. So I
00:52:34
thought that I think maybe like the
00:52:36
idea that the bottom up as section is
00:52:38
think about the presentations that we
00:52:39
were doing. I think about it was a
00:52:42
struggle young something together for
00:52:43
this I mean probably not knowing what
00:52:45
Trent disciplinary was and then I think
00:52:47
probably the other challenges you tend
00:52:48
to prosecute disciplinarian we are just
00:52:50
listen to what we actually discipline
00:52:51
or not so that's not a very good way to
00:52:52
go either. I think I see it and I I I
00:52:55
think that these conceptualisation so
00:52:56
we say become partition but I think
00:53:00
what I was but I think it was
00:53:02
interesting the presentations that
00:53:03
showed projects and show that comes. I
00:53:06
think it's the things that surround
00:53:07
whatever we decide to call the
00:53:09
discipline. Um that are interesting so
00:53:11
I think the social structures and sort
00:53:14
of what I was I know what you know and
00:53:15
even the outcome I think if we really
00:53:17
do embrace kinds this polarity I don't
00:53:18
think we should have any investment or
00:53:21
expectation about the upcoming what
00:53:23
form that outcome is I it's and I think
00:53:27
that that there is a in many respects I
00:53:30
think the part of the challenge really
00:53:33
does lie I think in in not so much the
00:53:36
finding and redefine the disciplines of
00:53:38
interdisciplinary the multidisciplinary
00:53:40
a really trying to attack or deal with
00:53:42
the structures that's that has a just
00:53:44
support these things but actually
00:53:45
construct and so I think that becomes a
00:53:48
process of constructing whatever you
00:53:50
wanna call it what you wanna call trans
00:53:51
disciplinary what you wanna call
00:53:53
design. Um and I and and and so I think
00:53:56
it's interesting to consider what how
00:53:58
we actually go about constructing this
00:53:59
notion entrance just their design which
00:54:02
are a bit of an oxymoron I think a
00:54:04
because you have the discipline in the
00:54:05
end of this I I but anyway that's
00:54:07
another But I used the answer taking a
00:54:12
class from from the university as you
00:54:14
it just if you have a I think that I
00:54:16
just think was a strategy was a very
00:54:18
fluent one word very simply I think the
00:54:20
idea sheets to if you want to work with
00:54:23
I mean you we spent a lot of time
00:54:24
working within the so the structures of
00:54:25
this universe is an economic
00:54:27
organisations and I think that's our
00:54:28
professional job to do that. But I
00:54:30
think if we wanna have some idea of
00:54:33
what might be a really blew it and
00:54:36
expand and and like for actually really
00:54:39
expensive way to do that is to leave
00:54:41
the structure the university which is
00:54:42
what I fancy studio really big you
00:54:45
gauge the basics and what was we had no
00:54:47
expectations of what the outcome might
00:54:48
be which is one of the things I mean as
00:54:51
as a someone would what about this is
00:54:53
an interaction design of the hard thing
00:54:54
like go to see the the CDC serial magic
00:55:06
because I think that's in time sweetie
00:55:08
all these things a is that a class
00:55:11
students lose sight of the reality. And
00:55:14
in fact one of the topic a selected by
00:55:17
the open S yes to deal with all okay.
00:55:20
So the as the team of us did in every
00:55:22
groups of students to go out and just
00:55:24
the street to find problems. And and
00:55:27
then back and tried to device is
00:55:30
solution to address that so there I I
00:55:35
think going out of the of the classroom
00:55:38
thing you know you didn't say oh okay I
00:55:54
just want to add to my previous our
00:55:58
talk "'cause" I didn't have time to
00:56:00
actually speak message simple but what
00:56:03
about the before and after thing. So
00:56:06
the before work is actually the first
00:56:09
this semester work and so you can see
00:56:13
they they do go through a certain level
00:56:15
of transformation and through the two
00:56:17
semester working together and and the
00:56:20
the third semester they come up with
00:56:22
individual projects we should they all
00:56:24
like overcome their individual you know
00:56:27
just covered probably and go staff
00:56:29
whether to explore something new so I I
00:56:32
think it's possible to do this as a
00:56:35
nice they have a value driven behind so
00:56:38
so that's the the first magic messages
00:56:40
aside message the reason I'm showing
00:56:42
the for the two random interactive
00:56:44
works is like if you don't really have
00:56:47
a strong value driving behind and
00:56:50
that's the outcome we got so they're
00:56:52
exploring different they're having
00:56:54
their own fun but then the outcome is
00:56:57
kind of write random. So whether it's
00:56:59
successful we're not like you know it's
00:57:02
really random. So so that's basically
00:57:04
my message and you know that's why I
00:57:07
put them a thank you I used to
00:57:12
something more so yes I I I mean I I
00:57:18
think that I agree on on are sort of
00:57:21
like in this project and taking them
00:57:24
all the you must context. So what and I
00:57:29
I think that that we do all the time
00:57:33
when we do that also face a lot of
00:57:35
training as a reworking how they then
00:57:39
feed into what have seen in university
00:57:41
life and I think that's some of
00:57:43
everything from making sure the we have
00:57:46
some yup stick to to make sure the
00:57:49
outcome way also call greeting and
00:57:53
progress and and so I think that's one
00:57:57
thing I I I think in all the thing this
00:58:00
is all the more overall thing which is
00:58:04
a bit to I think we we are used in
00:58:07
Denmark facing the universe seize
00:58:10
system where efficiency I mean not but
00:58:13
efficiency of a problem waste to the
00:58:16
university program is becoming more and
00:58:18
more ascension. And damn them the more
00:58:24
you well this sort of either extreme
00:58:26
group a or what or sometimes like you
00:58:30
do on your own kind of things. Uh the
00:58:35
more like just a challenge to these
00:58:37
these the precious for for
00:58:40
effectiveness. and yeah I'm I'm only
00:58:44
saying that because I think it's a very
00:58:46
big chance I I don't have the answer to
00:58:48
how how one could see from like and I
00:58:54
but I do think it's a concern okay
00:58:59
exactly so I I I completely with it I
00:59:01
know my slide on the industrial design
00:59:04
department and I don't and and then
00:59:06
speaker just you and and one of the
00:59:08
challenges is exactly what used you
00:59:10
spoke about which is in fact the the
00:59:13
resources the time the processes by
00:59:17
which you assess self directing use
00:59:19
learning. Um and and it's it's it's I
00:59:22
think it's a debate within the the the
00:59:24
back of the as to whether this is a a
00:59:26
proper byproduct of the approach to
00:59:28
learning or it's just a matter of the
00:59:30
conflict between being a university
00:59:33
structure in which as for grades and
00:59:34
and making time and other demands other
00:59:37
than in teaching and learning and it's
00:59:40
a conflict and as a result of that but
00:59:42
I I think that that's I think that the
00:59:45
the point the other what to draw on
00:59:46
that is I don't we do have to attend to
00:59:49
those other things outside of the
00:59:51
classroom and our departments that
00:59:52
actually support them they're gonna
00:59:54
that's only apart address and or and
00:59:58
for the benefit of those who you know
01:00:00
the I bill some construct meetings they
01:00:05
were places instead there are no less
01:00:06
assessments after classes these
01:00:09
questions yes supervise it it is about
01:00:15
build programs me is that yes happening
01:00:22
students still that it's a fantastic
01:00:28
more that's a problem says well let's
01:00:34
let's put it this way we have about
01:00:38
fish you mutually there's something
01:00:40
analysts look like to that needs then I
01:00:44
then opening overseas okay okay so I
01:00:49
originally. That's crazy or yeah
01:00:54
question but I never asked rawness for
01:00:58
us is see moronic using trends this
01:01:06
asian and disciplinary interaction
01:01:09
design in education foundation transits
01:01:12
all unmarried actually on there or
01:01:21
sorry Mary you only that's and no
01:01:28
longer to be that so like around
01:01:32
education or design I'm asking Um I
01:01:48
just say I I'm I'm not a but of course
01:01:51
that's maybe also why I I had sort of
01:01:54
have my doubts about what what is
01:01:56
really my role because I I do like from
01:02:00
the some sort this if on the news is is
01:02:06
what what then of course so it makes a
01:02:09
difference away like talk about most S
01:02:12
curricular based on this a plenary you
01:02:15
lose or what you're really talking
01:02:18
about you and I think we have that that
01:02:21
we actually have made in time to you so
01:02:24
it was something else. I deliberately
01:02:30
did not I'm not talking about design
01:02:31
and I think it's interesting that
01:02:33
historically you know the all all this
01:02:38
time about design UHIV infection design
01:02:43
actually is pretty much common off for
01:02:47
instance the kind of education. We
01:02:49
started doing you know and I remember
01:02:51
back in the eighties we had a long
01:02:53
discussion what what was you know what
01:02:57
design what was designed and and of
01:03:00
course people you know the people at
01:03:01
the time right no we we did have ideas
01:03:05
about that but it's not the design with
01:03:07
the kinds C these that I think is
01:03:09
thinking of the week so head into the
01:03:13
room in in these kind of settings here
01:03:16
and and I I I mean I actually quite to
01:03:19
choose a lot piece like for me because
01:03:22
I I I I I sort of you know I I don't
01:03:25
want to see myself identified this'll
01:03:28
design intact they can it's they the
01:03:36
example that the course that I still
01:03:39
the interesting part was that the all
01:03:42
the professors actually taught the very
01:03:46
expert oriented not and not trying to
01:03:51
intermingle or kind of create three new
01:03:54
types of knowledge combining different
01:03:56
expertise together. And to me that a
01:04:00
very interesting actually but at the
01:04:03
same time that course cannot be part of
01:04:06
any these things. Uh because that three
01:04:09
different discipline nine albeit
01:04:11
actually taught at the same time. Um
01:04:14
but the the thing that I was quite
01:04:17
intrigued by that pours with that
01:04:19
actually it's professor appreciated
01:04:23
that they're one disciplinarian
01:04:24
knowledge and then that was taught to
01:04:26
the students you know maybe in that way
01:04:31
you know in in terms of the peacefully
01:04:33
now. And then still the what what
01:04:38
school open was on the part where this
01:04:40
year then how be to come up with a
01:04:44
probably can be also the problem given
01:04:46
in the class and would also the final
01:04:49
assignment as well that I showed. And
01:04:52
then they were free to I of you realise
01:04:55
the anomalies. Um without any specific
01:04:59
guidance or kind of put one perspective
01:05:02
thinking so that I think with the I
01:05:07
Thank you. Right we do if you think we
01:05:13
could thing more with your feet
01:05:16
actually but ah so what I can save that
01:05:21
actually if we really like to probably
01:05:25
the term education may not be the term
01:05:29
when you talk about trance we never
01:05:32
probably the train transitive. P at
01:05:35
that and if we know we that or a
01:05:39
problem. Um which can be integrated the
01:05:44
part of our academic or education and
01:05:48
I'm not like well you know taking out
01:05:52
or that this plenary oriented proxies
01:05:55
okay john but actually kind of
01:05:58
combining them together because I think
01:06:02
I think that that these you know
01:06:03
normally because that need that you
01:06:14
know them to something you know you any
01:06:23
questions from URL sorry okay so I
01:06:27
think that the so I tried analytical
01:06:30
very clear about it but I I I tried to
01:06:32
point out that this idea here and and
01:06:34
and desires. And I think in this
01:06:36
context a trans disciplinary is the
01:06:38
word we use the manager mediate these
01:06:40
fears and desires around education oh
01:06:43
but I think they have to be real things
01:06:45
that we're afraid of what we desire to
01:06:47
attend to I think it's interesting the
01:06:50
changes I was talking about was really
01:06:53
about this margins of information
01:06:54
technology to me my counter having to
01:06:57
redesign of course into sustainability.
01:07:00
It's just it it is it is an issue and
01:07:02
and and in fact I think it's by
01:07:03
approaching it through the notion of
01:07:06
what our fears and desires are about
01:07:07
things. Then we have to attend to them
01:07:10
now yes we have a we have a language
01:07:13
which is although we constructed for in
01:07:16
academia and it's very hard to simply
01:07:17
abandon it but that that and and we
01:07:20
work with what we dealt with and but I
01:07:22
do agree that if you take on the full
01:07:24
radical notion of france's Bernard that
01:07:27
really does mean rebuilding all of
01:07:28
those structures anybody who started
01:07:30
just say I'm to be very innovative not
01:07:32
course those they have to redo what
01:07:33
course means what is assessment me what
01:07:35
is a learning object though out of idea
01:07:37
what you know participation and all the
01:07:39
various elements of what is about a
01:07:42
learning. So but nevertheless within
01:07:45
all of that constellation these fears
01:07:47
and things that we're afraid of what we
01:07:49
desire are still there and so I think
01:07:51
that's that's so I think to say that I
01:07:53
don't think it's we can never we
01:07:55
shouldn't be talking that has this one
01:07:56
area say Francis where and you are
01:07:58
going to design education that's
01:08:00
because you think you wanna remarking
01:08:01
or your curriculum. And that may be
01:08:03
fine because that is other agendas and
01:08:04
values what I've is the instituted and
01:08:06
that's the but let's understand you
01:08:09
know how going questions from the
01:08:14
audience yeah this one first and this
01:08:23
thing from this TI contract or
01:08:26
something because or wow wow it's so oh
01:08:55
right this just so it is right my
01:09:05
that's true oh so thanks for
01:09:26
introducing I would you know free IPC
01:09:28
fish these discourse depend and it I I
01:09:44
yeah with which is yeah is that yeah
01:10:12
yeah right I no no I I know okay I I
01:12:28
don't think Linda I I really don't
01:12:31
disagree with what you're saying and I
01:12:33
I think it's you know need can become a
01:12:38
little bit of a or if you think that
01:12:40
you should take on this me the idea
01:12:44
over all time and I think you may even
01:12:47
from that perspective be is also quite
01:12:49
useful just about what is it then that
01:12:52
makes easy section designers have their
01:12:54
own firms stay sick they can contribute
01:12:58
from and not just is P mediators oh for
01:13:02
if anything and everything from
01:13:05
engineering to a very specialised for
01:13:08
this water or whatever kind of sorry
01:13:10
yeah I know have we're all talking
01:13:18
about the utterance this only
01:13:20
indication but with the my reuse nudity
01:13:27
use experience in practise in the C
01:13:30
everything. Now we should be advanced
01:13:32
eastern with the what kind of
01:13:35
department what kind of background you
01:13:37
from once you got the job in the in the
01:13:40
in the company industry that and that
01:13:44
is that that it is very hard to keep
01:13:49
that you're is really that
01:13:53
characteristic all do it to you retire
01:13:55
okay that I would've had to be like
01:13:59
over several hundred designer's team in
01:14:02
age electronics and does it you know we
01:14:07
can survival with the the distinction
01:14:11
between industrial design graphic
01:14:13
design on or something something
01:14:15
because that as a one of audience that
01:14:18
you know that the interaction design
01:14:19
the such a things nobody can and this
01:14:22
is my okay so altogether get together
01:14:25
that you know it has could even okay so
01:14:28
you do this one and that work together
01:14:30
without having any distinction between
01:14:34
where you from okay but I found out
01:14:37
there is just some what code that the
01:14:41
the the interdisciplinary DNA was the
01:14:45
possibility to willingness to work
01:14:48
together was something like just pure
01:14:53
personal motivation is the those who
01:14:57
created from rock to news the applicant
01:15:00
the design as it tried to keep your
01:15:03
should be sealed that there it it is
01:15:07
pretty okay so they tried to really not
01:15:10
mingle there if I said okay please you
01:15:13
go to the marketing department boarding
01:15:16
together to have a prince to teach was
01:15:18
something. And design a set of keys
01:15:21
whiny peaceful even if I I do wrong or
01:15:24
something. But if I quality. I dunno
01:15:27
ingenuity more are the computer science
01:15:29
please come to design and the discuss
01:15:31
the we'll have one of the project and
01:15:34
say yes I will do that you know. So I
01:15:36
can just see that that each is going to
01:15:39
have their own kind of idea perceptual
01:15:42
technically but you know in in the
01:15:46
company that's a reality yeah and
01:15:48
everything should be tested generally
01:15:51
not just more disparity so I think we
01:15:53
to education should be the only
01:15:56
prepared at all just stones ready to do
01:15:59
that okay otherwise you labelled done
01:16:02
in the kind of all actual practical in
01:16:06
the C that's what I might be yeah
01:16:12
another great up observations I I I
01:16:15
also think I think the question you
01:16:16
raise it it it also raises the issue
01:16:18
accountability and I think that's
01:16:21
actually using the accountable for for
01:16:23
the outcome and I you raises the
01:16:24
question of who wants to be
01:16:25
accountable. And a lot of this
01:16:27
disciplines were about accountability
01:16:29
with about potential arising in making
01:16:30
and and and validating what was to be
01:16:32
no called sisters a training because we
01:16:35
all know this is what we validate is
01:16:36
not but I think this question
01:16:38
accountability something that would be
01:16:39
needed needs to be we we we all
01:16:41
experience it and it should
01:16:42
interdisciplinary where no one is
01:16:44
accountable outcome. And I think the
01:16:47
weather I don't think anyone discipline
01:16:49
is gonna feel anymore possible maybe in
01:16:51
your experiences designers you always
01:16:53
experience of the upset as well. But I
01:16:55
think the notion of accountability
01:16:56
would have to be part of this
01:16:57
understanding of trance this who is
01:17:00
actually accountable and how do we know
01:17:01
that are quite racing about how do we
01:17:04
measure wasn't it okay anything know
01:17:08
stick kind of if know we have a couple
01:17:13
of minutes a list of this panel. So
01:17:15
first of all I'd like thank the
01:17:17
panelists some great observation though
01:17:19
there's one more question we straight
01:17:22
just go from a city diversity phone
01:17:25
call I I also have just as well just
01:17:30
one ask use I think he problems for
01:17:40
this T V.s "'cause" to do you course
01:17:44
things interest once the of course
01:17:52
going to find a job hunting indefinable
01:17:56
okay when we try to present themselves
01:17:58
to others to the job market find
01:18:01
difficult is "'cause" sometimes okay
01:18:04
well not really not places thing on
01:18:07
sometimes oh interaction different
01:18:12
fine. But if you go descriptions it
01:18:16
maybe some or some of them just you
01:18:18
some of them require you programming so
01:18:21
you some of who shot to design. So on
01:18:26
one hand how how how Stevens a sure did
01:18:30
you came across these it is well we
01:18:36
have one my also that most impressed I
01:18:42
think he also increases the in terms of
01:18:46
the program mining emission usually
01:18:49
decisions O one useful and of course
01:18:53
getting the job was not only go for
01:18:58
getting education but that's one of the
01:19:00
me a question that is a potential
01:19:02
introduces us see what what and
01:19:07
reactions from the panel and then
01:19:12
unfortunately sorry for this I have the
01:19:14
close to four this correct and then
01:19:19
yeah I I I have to say that for the
01:19:27
history because of the development of
01:19:30
technology and the need for a new kind
01:19:34
of a fashion. So they right times it
01:19:37
always the the new new was gender
01:19:40
nation of a new profession always
01:19:42
encountered that kind of a so I and not
01:19:46
today I I guess the methane that they
01:19:48
would be a solution so let me give it
01:19:50
again sample so I graduated from NC a
01:19:53
national timeline nation a think on a
01:19:55
visiting time in the area of industrial
01:19:58
design. And twenty and thirty years ago
01:20:02
when I graduated every time I went to a
01:20:05
job interview I had to explain what is
01:20:07
in that spirit is so I thirtieth
01:20:10
finally I don't have to explain
01:20:13
investors is that so when I'm seeing is
01:20:16
that and and I don't know about the
01:20:18
downfall me that when he thirty a
01:20:21
computer design in a national Taiwan
01:20:23
university a long time ago or other
01:20:25
purposes actually do not know because
01:20:27
that yeah oh you got you got into so
01:20:31
after a long time and then they can
01:20:33
have a real computer design education
01:20:36
now. So I I think in actually nine is
01:20:40
also what I have also go through the
01:20:42
same process but but have field will be
01:20:46
is identity overtime that that's what I
01:20:48
found somewhere. I think he has gone I
01:20:53
was talking quickly and then maybe ten
01:20:54
years ago that he was calm. eating at
01:20:56
their PG are there for a little bit
01:20:58
apart So I think it was not job
01:21:01
openings for interaction design in high
01:21:03
and wasn't very happy as tonight
01:21:06
eighteen fifty guys to the N is there
01:21:11
anything else the I know if not I would
01:21:15
like to keep a final words any less
01:21:17
okay almost a a kind of what I said
01:21:21
this very last question "'cause" I work
01:21:23
into programs is to is to get jobs job
01:21:26
market is much more like US Hong Kong
01:21:29
well but but I think in china and the
01:21:35
students one skills because that's what
01:21:38
we're gonna use them every first jobs.
01:21:42
But in both programs I have colleagues
01:21:46
or teaching them things like feminist a
01:21:48
C alright critical theory. And stuff
01:21:52
that's values oriented. And sometimes
01:21:56
they don't understand what that has to
01:21:57
do with their jaw. But later that's
01:22:01
what happens have that sort of
01:22:03
education then I can rise up after
01:22:07
they've taken our first job I'm
01:22:09
managers or or story. callers also we
01:22:13
if it is critical to just We stuff from
01:22:17
what it what more simply skills based.
01:22:20
So more one other thing I'd like to say
01:22:22
is that actually just like that given
01:22:27
if which to find trans America as
01:22:31
probably rick or yes S that really
01:22:36
we're not saying that we shouldn't be
01:22:37
rigorous we're not saying we have to
01:22:40
absolutely opened every what that we
01:22:43
should be a lot of everything but right
01:22:44
these three things. And balance one
01:22:49
it's another. And I think that's the
01:22:51
perspective rather than just okay
01:22:54
disciplinary X from my point both of
01:23:00
the audience okay I think here is one
01:23:04
to these other panel obviously we can
01:23:09
have one repeat and so what the
01:23:12
utterance disparities and indications
01:23:15
but rather I think we expose a out with
01:23:18
different critical issues the audience
01:23:22
I think we should work together. But
01:23:24
the many different issues so that is to
01:23:28
gonna continue to that thinking about
01:23:32
that the to see issues and I think this
01:23:36
is this was good opportunity or a
01:23:41
little bit different sort of different
01:23:43
approach a different process. And so
01:23:46
that you know you know I hope that
01:23:50
everybody on from each other actually
01:23:53
coming and so I think there was
01:23:55
exciting that can kind of discussion

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