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Panel discussion: Challenges to come - Research assesment, alternative forms of publications, rewards, incentives
Monday, Oct. 19, 2020 · 3:15 p.m. · 57m 45s
With: Matthias Egger, President of the National Research Council of the SNSF Claire Clivaz, Head of Digital Humanities +, SIB Swiss Institute of Bioinformatics Tina Asmussen, intercom Verlag Jean-Sébastien Caux, Professor of Physics, University of Amsterdam and Chairman of SciPost Foundation Michael Pascal Hengartner, ZHAW School of Applied Psychology Host: Daniel Wyler, Representative of swissuniversities at the EUA Expert Group on Science 2.0/Open Science
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everyone uh give you will i hope you think
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i've come to test that yes yes yes yes i i i'm happy to discuss changed
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uh the idol was even preferences to calm act
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but i think that the challenges now or or
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if you should come up with is a is
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a discussion about what are the most important watch and
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what can we actually do to prove see a dumb
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members of our hand i'll usually you see the least
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and i don't see i'll be able to have let me
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start with client leave are are you yeah yeah yeah i
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think yeah everything fine i would like to have a a yeah i you okay yeah yeah i i yeah you good
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welcome to and the thing that was for him to come up
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i really i don't like about the i know i'm just gonna tools from that no chairman
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of a euro yet another some yeah they're
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michelle ah yeah if present e. okay yeah i
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know i yeah i am happy hands are apparently not or doesn't the does he go oh
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okay so why it doesn't seem to be here now yeah we will continue and see here as
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as it goes let me quickly prevent myself
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uh have a look at my a sign
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it and then you get to know him by our and the phase each time but
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the guy from the new there's gives every that have been working on many aspects of
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uh oh in science in particular citizens uh
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uh citizens times uh we had discussed already
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in the last uh for uh and the uh i will probably
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not be a big copy here but if you have if you are
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interested i'm always happy to talk to that it's set up the i'm
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will come chat i of all science many people think it's you or
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but nobody knows how to promote the crow i know over this he does have a
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tentative via the input statements i would like
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to show those to roost on the the the
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show them f. f. f. f. up okay
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uh so is the the first room that
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leave now it's a shame you are uh
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stressing the importance of the humanities antisocial size just
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and the and we really try to go to what you
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feel uh you or indigenous pay enough customers and uh she
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it should work is in the intercom publishing platform
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i would call a and uh she uh there
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the main right and uh at least here is that uh
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we need to from two different fields
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ah ah a. d. statement open access
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but ah simply risks it's central problem is you know
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in this of signs i i'm quite sympathetic to that yeah
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often the patients don't match yeah to come up to us
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it was yeah it is a bit of a typos publishing
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platform an essay of um a quite interesting that as being
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a i would say a history in physics to have said transformers
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no it's a very official maybe but it it was always a big
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right and uh that we could be in physics to be open and
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the i think it is a way of uh uh uh changing averaging
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is the right probably see every video had
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questions on that let me come to rip
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uh to the next uh in upstate new he's shower and six and you have to be to have
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a dubious who want a research come with conducted
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recovers scientific study of course this is already an issue
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mal before this have go into this and uh it is a
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question with the open designs uh the u. i. i. s. s. a.
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the rate accentuate his problem but he has a good idea you with
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the um appeal as it says alice mm yes i'm eh oh good
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uh can you show yourself so you can get to know who uh
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and as you can do that yeah oh yeah on some yeah if you could give so
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uh you address mostly yeah reward system assessment we
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have been talking about that and and we'll come
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uh_huh uh as we proceed
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let me shall do in this room for the house and a slight
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but i copied from that taught by a ahead of up and science yeah
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of the european community have the e. g. research
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and with asian you are the the clans divisions
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the castle it's up to you and i would
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go in science uh and this is uh what will
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uh and we didn't have to use the solar you have to aspire to this um uh uh
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this is beta are same thirty yeah lost in
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these cars before of room for research data service is
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does the launch of a broken research you were caught in
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platform nothing to this is a interesting going to has been
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also discussed on a national level then the analysis of the
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author's rights to label sharing a a problem with on the
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view all articles then uh it comes to me topic of
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research assessment a incentive as a waste packages i didn't uh
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the uh as mentioned is is is ah uh uh uh
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uh as thick and the uh and then the uh last going
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even the best kept the digital pen outside sending
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range okay so it made me then come to
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our discussion i have tried to to a form
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of a physics it point six times of discussion
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but of idaho the uh some of you with
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the best of various or angel next i now have
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the first one and this is something uh i've
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always be missing missing in the discussion why do we
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actually want designs from a scientific point of view
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and want to be me to convenes scientists to assume
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we know that as a goal in itself but
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as it go too many irons better might be yeah
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well if you more more socially oh uh let me start
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here is a key now you have expressed interest in this question
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and yes and i i yeah i will write that are
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hard muscle car sell cars colour s. fans colours for scar us
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an hour later on we'll have a background angle around until i don't i around us channel lesson aren't
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back to i haven't i haven't an artifact i rather quiet tool ending a red channels or i'll
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sell from and there aren't aren't i'll show an
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uh it kinda scares the hell out your standard frustrating
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checking and what i only have one to undermine
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frowned again current connoisseur natural classic rock or this
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fast back and i'll i'll share barracks ah panel
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to various academic cartridge for that aspect you ask for
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cassandra channels are in art style
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hypothetical congressional infrastructures are colourful compressors cell
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well and cruel little animal and
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only dance aesthetic tulips for specific
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handle for extra rental sly and also has lost an l. kind
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of fancy car check back oh christ out a lot kinder sense
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and i specifically or sell like me for at a set price are
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transparent located only safe aren't right well i am not concentrating on
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not just accelerate last real normal babcock okay have rights a vancouver
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to your cost about funding maybe i could asked for my b.
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f. helped us he's easy why why then that's another four is actually
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the pushing of them designs uh what
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you promise yourself doing that um times
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on yeah i think i would line for as long as it all uh as
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i was uh you sound is um
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i do believe that when people make their
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home or it was a is um
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publicly available about this view in halls mobility
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you know go the extra mile to mention without a column
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is correct and that going is well documented instead of you
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uh and and i think that that these um you know
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i mean home holding housing effect all um oh in science
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of course it also has the fact that um people do not you can't um
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uh you know research that uh uh someone asked on there which is really long
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analysis allow doesn't only necessary to collect design right okay uh_huh
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sometimes a an element of a efficiency in these
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um that um when you accelerate uh probably raise he
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uh_huh uh in a in science and we'll make
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it possible to have more money for channel meaning you
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like a collection on you research ah i think there's a lot of inefficiency at the moment
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he's done because the local to each other that one side is not overwork
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i don't have that their competitors and all and science um
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would i think on all hasn't potential let's put it that way
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it won't start inefficiency at least some something really another awesome
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from advances respected more money for innovative new results that hasn't been
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done already okay thank you this is a pretty yesterday and
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uh i would uh one of the other people like to comment
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on that you work for a primary circuit of words yes
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uh i mean the so so to me of course it's all
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about the quality of the science that comes out but i do think that a little bit more openness can increase the the
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quality of the scientific output so where exactly i really agree with that that's just not saying i think this is all entirely
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correct round are but i would even like god something's on
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to that so i do think that the scientific evaluation process being
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more local makes that much more stringent or for for increases
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the pressure towards quality that's a very very important thing reproduce ability
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you super important sterile kind of more or um or if
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you want a broadly available separate lecture notes for students that's also
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extremely important girl things which are a a risk where you're
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trying hard actually is also to make all this material much more
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accessible to people from different it's different cultures and backgrounds maybe
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from places where they don't have the same richardson the saying means
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for education but we do because i do believe that that i i know for a fact that there are many young students
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from developing countries for example bucks or to use these resources
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quite uh quite freely and sometimes quite productive week so i think
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that's a it it's a great thing to try to get out the vocals on its also insurance but overall it's really about
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what your designs that's the main reason yeah eh we had
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before uh that to the um are the people who will receive
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lacking nobody's these questions that they have to they are designed to
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use their uh they showed how many scientists dissipating he's a discussion
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and the uh with the uh with the c.
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i. a way to stop for a major theme
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more interested in no designs and rooms uh_huh saying everything in
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open science journals instead of so called high impact to the
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tunnels an yes well last time i hear that player would
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yeah yeah i think that shows we feel inclined not in science
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when we think late fees of the without should data on the content of research
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and here we have still you chief what's in communication and true meaning to you
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because it can fit in the code orange that assets it because of use
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that the format of the data then yeah that's not influencing the content
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of research and it's true for all all the steps in humanities i would
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think it is but it is still really not useful majority of colleagues at
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least in humanities and uh i'm looking for want to visit step for me
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the fact that it is in itself a day and into doesn't seventeen
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to push it in a data management didn't was really a a great opportunity
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because now we know that oh no ledge is is
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or will not be owned by the digit and matter
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so that's a key or research or if you relies that's the data
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the shape of the data format of the data influence
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the content itself stuff going it okay um we have
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a a a sign says a lot about quality and
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the poor room and wish there was this uh yeah michael
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pascal the to one has to be either have the low quality d. at home would you do with a
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a well that's a good question actually um when i was over yeah it's not my uh i i i i
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was uh talking from from the perspective of the publishers
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working as a long term associate editor for open access
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journal and uh well what i observed is that there
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is a huge um it's a search of of of of
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mass if income of of papers of sometimes really dubious
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quality diet um after that which also has the fact
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that uh don't open access publishers um i've become kind
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of a last resort for many researchers sixty don't proceed with
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for all the journals and and that i mean i
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think the challenge to comics that the open access journals don't
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them actually love always bought a script so um that's quite
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a challenge i think the show have you see that the
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from the point of view of the of the
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platforms uh oh that falls off the severest yahoo like
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you know what if i follow up on that if i follow cannot point i mean i you already
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i do believe that done correctly false witness in
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in the uh kind of track record valuation process it's
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an objective facts or reproduce double far better for it's
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just a question of time and experience that demonstrate that
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then use that to murdoch's open purposes will reach
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higher quality levels than existing ones and uh the question
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is how long does that take an unfortunately we're locked
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into systems like meaning a minimum rose say five years
00:20:01
for quality evaluation for an emerging journal so there can be no measurable circuit for after twelve years right
00:20:07
before five years after five years you will see that so i do believe that those kinds of turner's certainly
00:20:13
starting to happen now so souls or meter one of your
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worries about open access being use those don't cry this isn't noticeable
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for this is mostly because many existing publishers are using their
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on open access cycles as a last resort a a punishing the
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news in the big train but perhaps but you see i like to trendy you know i mean the argument quickly clearer because
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i'm now because like i said i do believe that these open
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reference forms are much more structured and then you know with patience
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once this is demonstrated i think you know the old publishing values will have failed to it that
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it was better way of doing things that you have to know i tell acts as an adult
00:21:14
channel and a colour blind and i found
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sounds like let's little or is that an an castle had there
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are actually pass an right right they had our expert lavish channel right
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and then i started adult adult yeah oh yeah that shadow and left one fifty
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alright alright thank you k. f. status right as fast
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as i can i can i can i can see
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oh yeah right yeah okay sharon contrast
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and and i can very good extraneous up there he says i don't right now
00:22:19
and you're right yeah really you know actually right now are sell x. rancher card
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machine top crayfish channel a little also how natural products all right right of uh
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huh uh found your life and that
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an awful lot as a as say stains
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where the antibodies published uh in that it's in the and don't know that it does
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open stein says oh yeah it's still well
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would uh one to shut channels uh become
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well i think uh and chances and second five yes it would become more trendy and
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i would give the mountain out of a go into surgery that action of i i mean
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i know personally my fee to uh these
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credit and to those that everything i have
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and uh nobody seemed to access to say that colour is a view that cat that
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one can be line yeah jeff knows what within that an awful say at this this
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is national science foundation we're actually i'm doing
00:23:54
a study on on the quality of you you
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in different times journals well no i think we
00:24:03
will do we are we are developing uh you
00:24:07
um text mining uh approach to hinge because you
00:24:14
know of of hume holes in collaborative study with loans
00:24:20
um ah yes i have we have only probably is not on research group
00:24:24
which looks into such issues and i think the discussion so far really last fall
00:24:30
maybe this is all the whole until he review
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i mean high impact journals i'm not necessarily of basically
00:24:39
review the lower impact specialised journals uh so they
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know high impact journals i'll go for a person's national
00:24:50
um and so i think we has in the context of copies
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uh we have some really nice examples of that when
00:24:58
when when when the loss of the new england journal
00:25:03
um and publish a analyses from about device that probably
00:25:07
does not exist on through what it was quite obvious
00:25:11
that the you know that there was something wrong uh
00:25:15
if if we've actually you would have options to allow publish
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personally i'm not reviewing phone calls it many
00:25:23
times and i always felt that my comments um
00:25:28
or playing a relatively little power in decision
00:25:31
making less important go away whereas with specialists journals
00:25:35
i often felt that my comments really mind being blocked and improve the paper et cetera
00:25:41
some are there is a lack of of empirical evidence all the quality
00:25:46
of you you i believe you used to the best system that you have
00:25:51
and all of you you have the potential to improve it um
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now regarding what us in a dos in this context is basically what
00:26:01
we would like to do is to move away from looking or journals
00:26:07
you know in the spirit of the war uh basically look at content
00:26:12
and we know piloting an alternative for a couple of compatible
00:26:18
i'm seeing the format where basically
00:26:22
we are talking about contributions designs
00:26:27
and he jonathan kent has for contributions you she can
00:26:30
present and these contributions can be on print with citations
00:26:37
to paint is they have polish and there's also a lot of output
00:26:42
for example you are generating a yeah a system or or um you
00:26:48
know in the arts and humanities i feel more at peace a lot exactly
00:26:53
so to basically be taken more always the problem and an awesome people
00:26:59
tell us what what has you one on one major contributions to science people not
00:27:05
any longer want to see long nationalist you
00:27:08
know where people can come dot how many
00:27:13
this person polish how many as follows also his as as last
00:27:18
holes uh we want to be part of a movement which times
00:27:22
or use that lee's does does really very damaging you know i'm i'm
00:27:27
when possible we would like to go towards
00:27:32
quality uh rather than quantity and the people
00:27:35
you you then what i have you to sign some of this is a little confusion about
00:27:42
yes and if and i both ah the level of results i look at the quality
00:27:46
you you and also or um what we
00:27:50
lost um from a d. people applying for funding
00:27:55
uh yes and uh although okay or am thank you very much yeah of course yeah this
00:28:02
is it has all the good buck uh
00:28:06
you me down to me for such a procedure
00:28:10
a i must be in finland unheard of man had
00:28:14
or and the you need people would would definitely in a
00:28:21
ten thirty you know and a lot of time right
00:28:24
for reading and uh i i usually does time is not
00:28:30
there i i think um i then i don't get
00:28:36
a very good point a we see that's the peer review
00:28:39
it's really a an important question now and it's normally
00:28:43
it does not count in this certification if it's good or
00:28:47
but in two thousand eleven getting fitzpatrick enough in this book planted
00:28:51
that set it all the way the that period you should make
00:28:55
one of the major scholarly activity was to get it's just an
00:29:01
efficient connectivity should gotten to with a high level of negligence is really
00:29:07
that the review well it's no ties activities should also counts in
00:29:12
this you don't got lost in in an academic carrier that's the way
00:29:17
you described by fitzpatrick into down and given a things ten years
00:29:21
i see these points everyday more uh important and that's not hear differently
00:29:28
well who wants to do to give people thought you know that
00:29:32
big college or whatever you that's all what losses although you a a
00:29:38
traffic but still it's you know so so unfortunately problems has been box
00:29:43
right i'm sure you're real it's the business but i've got stuff or
00:29:47
and they're not the only ones are not the first wants to do
00:29:49
that so essentially a like open records like but i think the first
00:29:54
experiences doctor or norbert proposals will each issue with figure i was for
00:29:59
chemistry and physics but was launched around the year two thousand this was
00:30:03
with open your review or or was a fabulous example for you
00:30:07
you know open science and also if you look at most very constructors
00:30:11
excuse that people talk about climate change ferrets are you writing but this
00:30:14
is out of control break but it works very very well and to
00:30:18
to really underlying the point for clear was making better with which i
00:30:21
completely agree ram it's very easy to give more credit to the work
00:30:26
of recruits you see so so it's like most for example the thing
00:30:30
that we do is that if there is ever worked we make it
00:30:33
is likable object so you and you get your to your wire
00:30:37
with that and you can put it in your publication record and hopefully
00:30:40
in the course of time more and more people would do that it
00:30:43
would be it would become a standard be recognised contribution to present the
00:30:47
corporates but also to go back to the bengals original point is there
00:30:51
enough time to directory and i think we always have to bear in
00:30:55
mind but there are plenty of academics in the world and i didn't
00:30:58
yeah and writing a paper cost much more time than actually referring it
00:31:05
maybe it's a factor of ten a factor of one hundred or difference
00:31:09
between the two so in a sense uh uh if there is the
00:31:13
academic or uh or or some other work for right all these papers
00:31:17
there certainly is fifty percent power to read for real what have no
00:31:22
worries about that oh okay okay maybe you ivory designed to switch a
00:31:29
little bit away from this to me is the central issue uh one
00:31:34
e. d. of how to make sense his interest uh and come to
00:31:39
another one that has been a good members who he that has being
00:31:46
in my mind for me is uh also because
00:31:50
i i work to get the last page indian people
00:31:54
and that money is often in she yeah you
00:31:58
people see it if i do to decrease cost
00:32:04
if possible but now i get to increase and
00:32:07
to have to re prevent the l. p. c.'s friends
00:32:13
create a new envy of people can probably because they
00:32:16
have the money to pay d. a. p. c. and the
00:32:21
to to to fulfil one of the goals of the
00:32:26
times maybe be what we call the more people eh maybe
00:32:33
he's uh i would like to go into that discussion
00:32:37
at the moment i can circle words a billion there i
00:32:46
think this is an absolute emergency uh because uh of the
00:32:51
rate at which the new agreements are being signed are currently
00:32:55
isn't sounding new business small for publishing which will be
00:32:59
perpetrated for decades and which will be you know factors about
00:33:04
what uh uh what it needs to cost in terms of for a terms of course so i think your uh
00:33:10
uh the way to fight the increased cost of publishing
00:33:14
is really to build replacement infrastructure that does not cost that
00:33:19
much uh uh like uh you know or destructive uh
00:33:25
approaches to changing the industry as has happened in many other
00:33:29
industries and i think in a sense the publishing industry is an easy one to disrupt like that's a but it
00:33:34
doesn't it up and it's a very fast i think
00:33:39
jeff chester yeah yeah back to ask all that is an
00:33:44
outline on second i shed and i can tell alice
00:33:47
alice shaking me i can't thank cell and an analysis of
00:33:52
alright i'll sell cars channel are i can't count past not
00:33:59
have actual far i had and sell it just stand out
00:34:03
like when we had a lot of infrastructure projects and i almost fell i half hour as well as
00:34:12
it's lost all his cap what good question
00:34:21
pastels still love to channel right i am sigh
00:34:26
fancy to grill an old asked tactile contact right
00:34:33
sure yes okay great l. s. s. fan elias
00:34:38
current cost still ah it's i think it's uh
00:34:48
it's maybe king has posed for instance as it's
00:34:53
easy for seventy yes but i don't think it
00:34:57
has really caught or maybe yeah emma and no
00:35:03
progress faces but uh i think that's what i think uh those uh uh i
00:35:13
i think i think if you have a growth by a factor of two every year
00:35:16
on that scale when it takes you five years together first impart factor i think
00:35:20
we've been doing very well so uh uh so you cannot you cannot conquer things immediately
00:35:27
or uh uh without without the change of the or a reassessment start i think
00:35:33
considering the pace of adoption of door i mean if you want to be disappointed by
00:35:37
the grace of change looking dudes are free
00:35:41
recognition situations actually adopt and implement horror look
00:35:45
at the lack of change in the evaluation framework that we are that we are beyond
00:35:49
centre it's ridiculous sensor we're we're doing over a pretty good about meeting occur uh
00:35:55
uh as fast as possible and people do trust but it's going to happen but the
00:35:59
thing is actually all the advice are quite against that's so him back to measure i
00:36:04
think we've been doing rather well huh player would you agree you know that would be
00:36:12
was saying that the data from slides i almost have to diversity or to to
00:36:20
those of opinions all forms i i i think that we have a very in hot
00:36:27
challenger is easy easy stuff um i would like to come back to uh well the
00:36:33
night in violation it you know lecture i press the chicken and code of conduct challenges
00:36:40
and then i think we can only hope that
00:36:43
such discussion we go at all levels in research
00:36:48
because of course he has a responsibility to not tried money
00:36:52
besides uh boats which articles should be published oh oh we get
00:36:57
that yeah and uh a bad science the people are and ease
00:37:00
this way so uh in the same way we have sets discussions
00:37:05
no fee academic society for example i hope i dare to hope
00:37:11
that things the committee of jewel known and and you don't get bored
00:37:15
only yells would be taken to balance or optical
00:37:20
coding for if we have a whole different countries
00:37:25
and to to see john that's editing skills of fee because i
00:37:30
don't think that you will see a a heath and he's happier
00:37:34
and i think we are yeah thinking to wish wish to a change in the
00:37:39
night is still um this nonsense it's probably to an old for that don't sense and
00:37:46
to really uh raise the consciousness of the
00:37:50
importance to have different scales of fries and
00:37:54
because the depending of the counties of the
00:37:56
researchers okay or did you do a michael
00:38:03
also coming i've since i don't see a mess when you sometimes these you know when
00:38:11
you know i've yeah i've nothing to help and okay good we didn't me go into
00:38:19
an uh the area or we have had
00:38:23
the many discussions about the rule of academic
00:38:29
libraries are in fact of any of the
00:38:33
associated institution as a opening science probably yeah
00:38:40
the the force a change of the mission then the role of these institutions and
00:38:47
the or oh we can this be done um yeah to move this way and
00:38:55
in a useful way yeah i would like to ask the answer is strange to
00:39:12
apple and solar or christian music the the yeah i've seen them today was discussed
00:39:21
yeah okay then they can either reuse and could be also associate you could be just saying there's also
00:39:28
i have to change a rule uh if
00:39:31
for instance ova and papers are online menu
00:39:36
you don't need a physical line really anymore and many libraries are doing the wave is the physical
00:39:43
presence at the guy resisted an important place with
00:39:49
a strange thing knowledge is exchange so how should
00:39:55
yes did i will be set up in the
00:39:58
future i as i can a question to that
00:40:04
so i'm the one of the libraries is getting
00:40:08
very fast and very well to the new conditions of
00:40:10
know ledge but it is not back to a
00:40:13
point underlined by a percentage pages before i earned
00:40:18
one point we have to keep in mind is the t. c. p. now every aspect and the possibility
00:40:24
to have the thinking on the platform because that's
00:40:27
not any possibility at least in humanities they exist
00:40:31
already and can humanities this situation we face that
00:40:36
we haven't found one field several platforms that i didn't
00:40:40
and often than not fully in there are barely able between then sometimes we yes
00:40:45
and things not so uh the fields at deceased this should deny plot phone exist
00:40:52
and as far as i see we won't get one institution uh nothing to get
00:40:58
the all things that would be the doing of the next weeks at a certain point
00:41:03
yeah the challenge is that more suisse or more confidant at a certain point which is really
00:41:09
to make these events cannot fall into a
00:41:13
variable and indian okay uh we each other still
00:41:17
uh i believe that the the idea is to have the weights with trends in future but they are not unknown
00:41:24
it feels oh good would you organised in different
00:41:27
platforms all the time or if i can and
00:41:33
uh i i don't i think the rule of toronto libraries that's all right for many years for the
00:41:39
whole signs movement to call for things can certainly
00:41:43
haven't been the library for but it wouldn't actually
00:41:47
use and i think since most or cultural cipher
00:41:50
ah online continents i think many many libraries already made
00:41:54
move into this direction providing no content online research
00:42:00
uh for over two hours or less developed than
00:42:07
average channels chest channel stand stacks like to shag
00:42:16
energy change that tax a little half take far around
00:42:24
each access our cell and i don't i am
00:42:29
i am nighttime gas tank and essential race incentive i
00:42:33
skier s. t. s. stands wall transformer troubled trade
00:42:42
change my credit can add resources are actually i shall
00:42:52
yeah just run such a castle house slash
00:42:56
defence style that there s. not final for an
00:43:01
angle ranch handler for right 'cause a little self
00:43:05
knowledge but for now than and mac o. terrorist
00:43:11
enter canada like to run environmental and and
00:43:16
i just can't resist than an hour access track
00:43:26
and still cannot and will far next to a
00:43:30
specific arrogance the class i would bet me that
00:43:34
to diversity is our country is with uh
00:43:39
and they own publishing uh from jamaica only there's
00:43:43
a trend these days a university college london has
00:43:47
really started the big known what would that be
00:43:52
a an option yeah rasta kind kind of
00:43:59
science and technology nelson riddle and experimenting right quote
00:44:06
terrorists have also financial parts i shall shall shall
00:44:13
i fly for on line blank glass half overall
00:44:18
i once had an or just just she just
00:44:27
amount to us you have a constant but i i
00:44:30
couldn't see or or um m. p. i. b.
00:44:36
m. m. yeah i i've been response to a comment
00:44:40
in which ah yeah i um if if you want me to um if if you want me to
00:44:48
comment on the the the line really shoes i'm
00:44:51
not really an excellent um boss what oh i'm sorry
00:44:57
hello this is not to you guys and then if he's thinking of ah i
00:45:04
haven't supported him a channels community venice
00:45:09
channels that we have um become open access
00:45:14
a support enough leaving process that is something that we are discussing
00:45:19
we could not support uh openness is shown as long term uh_huh
00:45:25
um and we share the concerns about yeah yeah he's although always he
00:45:30
found a lot of i. p. c.'s and all at the moment um
00:45:36
uh this is something that uh we've come home we've committed to that
00:45:42
but we also know stuff we sometimes fall they use of journals stuff
00:45:47
operating a graze though and that is the last one so it was
00:45:51
okay i work eh i now have a mm tell the guy yeah
00:46:03
uh i would like to go into reviewed but uh i think we uh
00:46:07
we just talked about it is you know and they test up to
00:46:12
the have seen the oscar and we have seen now there's one p. l.
00:46:17
how do you see the the development of those we'll go with the
00:46:22
national all the details of the international mostly uh with a new view one
00:46:31
that uh maybe play a cabin yeah mm kay i think that's a
00:46:42
way to get an infrastructure really combative but it takes a lot of time
00:46:47
it's really a huge challenge i still want this world they ask is
00:46:52
something for me like uh you know and a useful positive or we didn't
00:46:57
i would say i don't think like the leaves us the the necessary
00:47:03
a strength to go on the road but you had that also to be
00:47:08
my guest and passions he goes to make your that that's that's going
00:47:13
on different platforms just to project from the unit that's easy to another one
00:47:19
each time something like that so and i i'm sure we will go to your skin
00:47:25
sits on i'm sure we wouldn't get research infrastructure services on us at a certain point
00:47:32
but we have also to be conscious that it will take time
00:47:35
money and before it's or as a matter of you had the
00:47:43
one conclusions and no no okay i'm twenty if i may just
00:47:54
two quick comments about uh about data so i mean i think or
00:47:58
or care use the uh the magic word inter operability urging but we're really very strongly applies into
00:48:04
there are plenty of storage space it's uh for for greater but you know if you make these things
00:48:10
more interoperable then you can are for centralise searching
00:48:15
or portal where you can find mostly things unit so
00:48:17
that's one thing i hope it's going to go our way rather than you know be centralise the one
00:48:22
big corporations are great beta server somewhere store which access must be paid i think that's you know that's
00:48:29
a big risk because again the industry has means to direct way and i think i was preempted the
00:48:34
moves uh you're going from one more uh administrative
00:48:38
leadership slide from the academic side they're already ready and
00:48:41
offering solutions for this together with the invoices but uh go with the social so that's a big risk
00:48:48
and the second thing i would say is that there's a there's a little bit over
00:48:52
and that you cited discussion about data as well because i also hear that as a
00:48:56
scientist i should preserve absolutely every single little piece of data per i produce here and
00:49:01
there are no that is not uh that's what robots do a scientist essentially are able to
00:49:08
a certain the quality of certain things and to select unfiltered
00:49:11
but most important things out of course that can be to bias
00:49:14
but it don't handle intelligently you can still unsure reproduce ability
00:49:18
of the science right where marked essentially flooding viewers with useless
00:49:22
data so remember we'll see how it develops but term yeah
00:49:27
okay we ah and e. m. i. are coming to the
00:49:34
end we have a few more minutes would be a good
00:49:39
idea i mean increased to see him data that you have
00:49:43
you can see that i think may many less light lines
00:49:48
that uh we could discuss but i've applied that to maybe
00:49:53
give some stuff all of us to me yeah those go
00:49:59
to to express the major issue something you would really know
00:50:06
that uh we shall we just a colour yeah yes then
00:50:13
i would like to to a dos and tension to the
00:50:16
importance of the that themselves thirty she creation particularly for young
00:50:21
sky announce for p. h. p. and was not won't put
00:50:25
you seen gave my days the the research that always mentions
00:50:29
uh loaning encoding as well as transcription of manuscript or whatever
00:50:34
and they need for the future of of the
00:50:36
carrier bus or clear cognition of the production of research
00:50:41
data inform each means probably in the aisles those
00:50:45
it producers closes their education of the research that down
00:50:49
and maybe we'll for example we haven't sure not in
00:50:52
humanities and social sciences about we thought she not out
00:50:56
it surely something to encourage but those who owns it
00:50:59
didn't open reported uh we would like to see mark
00:51:03
of simplification in peer reviewed to believe you know academic
00:51:07
credits to this way you will mention to happen kathleen deception
00:51:12
up okay i see now i relish time slanted check
00:51:23
and next to the last time just that there is a
00:51:28
wrestler and i stacked and tara add additional costs are
00:51:37
passing around my car at are incorrect hell can less damage
00:51:48
to change channel dan ellis actual creole low styles thanks yeah just just trash
00:51:59
ah axed lulls wines as far as masculine high
00:52:14
energy channels on atlanta and have just drive yes saddam
00:52:25
yes is on the bus or just for a few
00:52:31
be important statement i mean so we i think for
00:52:38
me like i said there's a question of emergency now and the change of the business partners associate the publishing
00:52:44
rights many pieces i have to come together the assessment
00:52:48
slide is extremely important and is not moving fast enough
00:52:51
scientists are still trapped with you vicious circle
00:52:55
with your car truck or the evaluation but they
00:52:58
have on their published record right decisions life
00:53:01
changing decisions are being taken on young people's futures
00:53:05
based on very simple integer level statistics on paper and this is still
00:53:10
ongoing despite the fact that this has been talked about for over two decades
00:53:15
so so so we can only do so much as scientists were quite busy we've got you know lots
00:53:20
of problems to deal with it would be the responsibility
00:53:24
of universities yeah yeah the administration overlooks the funding agencies
00:53:29
to be more productive without i do not see
00:53:32
enough productivity in which the pace of change is to
00:53:36
show you know and and michael yeah i want to stress like an a and all the importance of of
00:53:45
open p. review and that we value and reuse as much as we
00:53:50
value research papers um i thespian already
00:53:55
am disgusted now in which ultimately will
00:53:58
also improve probably to the quality of re use when it is considered to
00:54:03
me it is a major part of science and with all opened reviews open
00:54:07
reduces titles thing that a lot of very bad reviews that we receive daily
00:54:13
sometimes by an anonymous reviewers can be improved massively and and that is my
00:54:18
which would functional now and then to a the t. s. a. ha i
00:54:26
i mean i'm the first thing i want is a yes no no he's
00:54:29
contributions that will ensure they can
00:54:32
all be um leaves these and when
00:54:37
uh peoples and make this he's whatever portfolios to the swiss
00:54:41
national science foundation on the other hand i'm i'm to think that
00:54:54
yeah i'm writing o. having
00:54:56
having a you know the mole uh astounding design implement
00:55:01
you for you and i really you know ah ah
00:55:06
pushing people movies or something that you know we just
00:55:13
the essence of the of science hum hobby i is
00:55:17
easy for him his contribution but it shouldn't be um a set up the same way you know
00:55:23
that design level i think we're on the right
00:55:27
track i think we're moving in the right direction
00:55:31
i hate the frustration that he's he's not going slowly
00:55:36
um it is going slowly because we need to change
00:55:39
the whole culture and basically the more see him people yeah
00:55:45
a lot in a culture that was very much
00:55:47
you know ten times in by regional you polishing
00:55:52
and you can backfire to change and i think we
00:55:58
are i'm moving in the right direction we should polish less
00:56:04
we should pop 'em morphs stand with my cousin fewer
00:56:09
of them i believe it's the constant challenge in that direction
00:56:15
that would be a manger you know um major progress on
00:56:19
what to uh would would improve what we're doing in more
00:56:24
please ah these mines in how you know my
00:56:27
sitting room i'm i'm most important message polish less
00:56:32
oh okay yeah thank you so much for all of your uh i think uh yeah we have
00:56:38
a few very strong statement really need to collect
00:56:43
them and publish less of the u. f. n.
00:56:47
mandate an emergency has some of the best yellow
00:56:51
said something very much for joining me turn mouse yeah
00:56:55
and i'd like to get back to you organisations thank you thank you i am
00:57:03
i understand yeah and all the distance it was a very nice discussion with a
00:57:08
lot of ground and nixon discussion there is a lot of other questions in a
00:57:13
chance conversation going on i think we were going to be it'll stay there was
00:57:18
um you need to continue also the conversation off line and we're reaching the
00:57:24
ends o. g. n. c. we only have the final closing and and by
00:57:30
you i would like to see uh to last early this afternoon so i
Conference Program
Welcome and Introduction
Jean-Marc Piveteau, Rector ZHAW and President of Delegation Open Science swissuniversities
Oct. 19, 2020 · 10 a.m.
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